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Post by tomsaw on Dec 31, 2021 22:05:03 GMT -5
I'm new to the smokeless game. Has anybody ever shot H335 or BL-C(2) in a .40 with Fury 275 before? I have a Remington700 s.a. with Bruk .40 cal. bbl. on it . Hank's did the machine work with his ignition system. I have a lot of those two powders. Could someone give me a good starting load. I have reloaded centerfire rifles and pistols for years and know about pressures. I have a chrono to watch the speed . Thanks Tom.
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Post by ultimtepredator on Jan 1, 2022 12:45:51 GMT -5
Do you have a powder column? If so what size?AB modules or standard modules?
What type ignition? I ran H 335 on quick loads and 68.3 grain was really close to 59.5 k in pressure with 99.9% burn
I’m not recommending a load just given you a safe proximity load
Again I am not recommending a load just letting u know about where max is
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Post by ultimtepredator on Jan 1, 2022 12:47:22 GMT -5
If using DI it be 10-15% less charge weight
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Post by tomsaw on Jan 1, 2022 13:33:46 GMT -5
Powder column, If meaning a powder chamber I hear of on here ,no ? I don't know what the difference between AB and standard modules. My barrel is a Hank's prefit with his ignition system and brass modules. This smokeless is all new to me and I have a lot to learn. Please bear with me.
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Post by sew on Jan 1, 2022 19:03:05 GMT -5
Tom,
I think powder chamber was meant, not powder column. Likely, the best place to start on loads, etc is to ask what your goal is.
My opinion is that this is an ultimate accuracy, benchrest type of board. Heavy rifles, hot loads, long bullets are the most accurate.
I admire and respect that. But, those loads are not for me. My defined goal it to kill a deer at <200 yards 95% of the time, be able to kill a deer out to 300 yards pretty easily and, maybe 400 yards (I do have a “heavy” 40 for hunting where that might be possible). So, I shoot a 228 AccuMax at a gentle 2770 (62g H322) out of my light 40m(DI, 24”) and 278 AccuMax out of my heavier 40 (26”, DI, 73g H4895), at 2870. These are “light” loads by many people’s standards.
So, for good, reasonable answers, we need to know your goal. How far and for what. Additionally, I’m about the worst at insisting on using “the powder I already have”. I’m not thinking that either of those 2 powders and a 275 Fury are good matches. If using a bushing, you don’t want a powder that can go thru the bushing hole. Generally, short to medium length rod powders, not spherical/ball or flake powders are best.
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Post by tomsaw on Jan 1, 2022 19:45:46 GMT -5
My goal is to be able to kill a deer at 350 yds. We hunt on a farm that is at least 700 yards wide and we have a tower in the middle. I also need to make a longer shot than my son. He has a Savage/Brux/.45. I was hoping to use what powder I have in my stash, but if won't work, that's ok. I have access to 100, 200,300, 500 and 600 yards at our gun club for testing.
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Post by hillbill on Jan 1, 2022 21:15:04 GMT -5
I think those powders are relatively unused in the .40, at least I don't know anyone using them.
Is it a barrel nut gun? If so loads should be on the lighter side of the spectrum.
If not you can shoot the heavier stuff but either way 350 yds is very doable.
I would suggest finding powders others have used and are currently using with that weight bullet.
I have never shot Fury's but I have shot 275 Accumax with H-4895, others have likely used other powders as well.
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Post by ballistic on Jan 1, 2022 21:22:48 GMT -5
Tom, I think powder chamber was meant, not powder column. Likely, the best place to start on loads, etc is to ask what your goal is. My opinion is that this is an ultimate accuracy, benchrest type of board. Heavy rifles, hot loads, long bullets are the most accurate. I admire and respect that. But, those loads are not for me. My defined goal it to kill a deer at <200 yards 95% of the time, be able to kill a deer out to 300 yards pretty easily and, maybe 400 yards (I do have a “heavy” 40 for hunting where that might be possible). So, I shoot a 228 AccuMax at a gentle 2770 (62g H322) out of my light 40m(DI, 24”) and 278 AccuMax out of my heavier 40 (26”, DI, 73g H4895), at 2870. These are “light” loads by many people’s standards. So, for good, reasonable answers, we need to know your goal. How far and for what. Additionally, I’m about the worst at insisting on using “the powder I already have”. I’m not thinking that either of those 2 powders and a 275 Fury are good matches. If using a bushing, you don’t want a powder that can go thru the bushing hole. Generally, short to medium length rod powders, not spherical/ball or flake powders are best. I completely agree with the powder going through the (.035 est) bushing. I also don’t recommend starting out on a .40 caliber. Get a .45 to understand what it takes before moving to a .40 -just my opinion and even then you might be scratching your forehead on the .40- it’s picky. But if you use powders like IMR4166 it will shorten the learning curve. Another option would be direct ignition as the powder can’t get through it. I have friends and myself with .45,s that run the HIS ( great ignition by Hank) but use powders that slip though the bushing. The only way to make their setups work is to load on a live primer with the bolt closed -safety on- still not ideal by any means. I was using 4895 and 3031 to slow it down. But that’s another topic that those in the know on this board understand. My advice for someone new to smokeless is to contact someone on the board directly and to watch (2x) all those videos than Hank has made. Great info and comments. I’ve been running direct for awhile and forgot the powder to bushing size. I thought BLC2 could work but it’s a fine grain ball powder. |
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Post by sew on Jan 1, 2022 21:24:43 GMT -5
Tom,
I’m doing just what I say not to do, using a compromised powder (H4895) with my 278g AccuMaxes. 73 (DI) which is about like 75-77 with HIS. Dirty but consistent with a brass bristle brush between shots. I’ve read a lot good about VV530, RL15,15.5, others. Now, that our “gun” season ended yesterday, I’ll get to work with Quickload and start investigating. FWIW, I will be trying 300 AccuMaxes with 4895 as soon as our “flooding” subsides (NE AR) . I plan to shoot out thru 400 yards. My heavy rifle is a 26” RC, 14 twist, using DI, maybe HIS also.
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Post by tomsaw on Jan 2, 2022 4:54:37 GMT -5
I think those powders are relatively unused in the .40, at least I don't know anyone using them. Is it a barrel nut gun? If so loads should be on the lighter side of the spectrum. If not you can shoot the heavier stuff but either way 350 yds is very doable. I would suggest finding powders others have used and are currently using with that weight bullet. I have never shot Fury's but I have shot 275 Accumax with H-4895, others have likely used other powders as well. Yes it it a barrel nut gun, a prefit by Hank's. |
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Post by Hank on Jan 2, 2022 15:21:57 GMT -5
I think those powders are relatively unused in the .40, at least I don't know anyone using them. Is it a barrel nut gun? If so loads should be on the lighter side of the spectrum. If not you can shoot the heavier stuff but either way 350 yds is very doable. I would suggest finding powders others have used and are currently using with that weight bullet. I have never shot Fury's but I have shot 275 Accumax with H-4895, others have likely used other powders as well. Yes it it a barrel nut gun, a prefit by Hank's. Your barrel should have an approx. 50 grain powder chamber, meaning you need at least a 50 grain charge. My best load when I tested the 40 caliber was 56 grains of IMR 4198 with a 225 grain bullet, if I remember correctly I got 2700 FPS with this combination. Both the powders you mentioned (BLC2 and H335) are ball powders and would not work well in these muzzle loaders as the powder will fall through the vent hole like then sands in an hour glass.... |
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ronc
Junior Member
Posts: 74
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Post by ronc on Jan 2, 2022 16:49:21 GMT -5
Here is my experience with getting acceptable hunting accuracy in my two 40 cals. Mine are 1.25" diameter for 5" past the recoil lug. Where I am at now, I am shooting the 228HC Pittman at 2700 fps in a 20" Pac-Nor and 2800 fps in a 26" Brux barrel. I worked up one grain at a time to find a node with good accuracy, clean burning and at the speed i wanted. I ended up using the same load of 56 gr of H4198 in both guns. The barrels have no powder chambers.
I believe these loads are safe in my guns but might not be safe in yours. Both guns are Rem 700 SS actions using the HIS ignition, 16" twist barrels. Maybe Steve or someone else could give us an idea of the pressure of this load, 26" barrel with no powder chamber.
My opinion is that a powder chamber in a 40 cal designed for low-mid pressures doesn't help efficiency that much until you get into the 70-ish grains of powder range and eliminates the efficiency of mid, low end and reduced load options.
Both guns shot less than 1" groups at 200 yds. I shot my first 3 shot group at 300 yds with the 26" Brux the day before I left for the Ky muzzle-loading season and it measured 1.403". The 228 gr 40 cal shoots about as flat as a 300 gr 45 cal at the same speed, has much less recoil and delivers more than enough energy for deer kills well past 300 yds.
So far I have no desire to shoot heavier bullets. These 2 guns have taken 11 deer so far, all complete pass through one shot kills from 60 to 234 yds. The exit wounds ranged from 2" to 6" depending on whether it hit bone going in. Most have been broadside mid-lung shots at 140 to 175 yds testing bullet performance. I'm really liking the 40 cals over the 45 cals.
I am very pleased with my results so far. I feel confident that the 228HC at 2700 to 2800 fps using a 16tw or 18tw barrel will provide adequate performance on deer out to 400 yds or so but I haven't had the opportunity to test expansion at those ranges yet.
The 20" weighs 10 lb, 5 oz, the 26" weighs 11 lb, 14 oz, with scopes. Recoil from these guns without brakes is very manageable for an old guy like me.
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Post by hillbill on Jan 2, 2022 19:34:31 GMT -5
Tom, I think powder chamber was meant, not powder column. Likely, the best place to start on loads, etc is to ask what your goal is. My opinion is that this is an ultimate accuracy, benchrest type of board. Heavy rifles, hot loads, long bullets are the most accurate. I admire and respect that. But, those loads are not for me. My defined goal it to kill a deer at <200 yards 95% of the time, be able to kill a deer out to 300 yards pretty easily and, maybe 400 yards (I do have a “heavy” 40 for hunting where that might be possible). So, I shoot a 228 AccuMax at a gentle 2770 (62g H322) out of my light 40m(DI, 24”) and 278 AccuMax out of my heavier 40 (26”, DI, 73g H4895), at 2870. These are “light” loads by many people’s standards. So, for good, reasonable answers, we need to know your goal. How far and for what. Additionally, I’m about the worst at insisting on using “the powder I already have”. I’m not thinking that either of those 2 powders and a 275 Fury are good matches. If using a bushing, you don’t want a powder that can go thru the bushing hole. Generally, short to medium length rod powders, not spherical/ball or flake powders are best. I completely agree with the powder going through the (.035 est) bushing. I also don’t recommend starting out on a .40 caliber. Get a .45 to understand what it takes before moving to a .40 -just my opinion and even then you might be scratching your forehead on the .40- it’s picky. But if you use powders like IMR4166 it will shorten the learning curve. Another option would be direct ignition as the powder can’t get through it. I have friends and myself with .45,s that run the HIS ( great ignition by Hank) but use powders that slip though the bushing. The only way to make their setups work is to load on a live primer with the bolt closed -safety on- still not ideal by any means. I was using 4895 and 3031 to slow it down. But that’s another topic that those in the know on this board understand. My advice for someone new to smokeless is to contact someone on the board directly and to watch (2x) all those videos than Hank has made. Great info and comments. I’ve been running direct for awhile and forgot the powder to bushing size. I thought BLC2 could work but it’s a fine grain ball powder. If you use a fine powder like 4895, Benchmark etc with a .035 bushing simply load on a spent module and you are good, simply change it out when needed, a spent module will seal the system so no granules will fall through. When you load without a module you are pushing a pretty good volume of air through the bushing hole, especially if you are using a wad, it don't allow air to get back by the bullet as easily. it's trying to force powder granules out of that hole.
Yes best case scenario would be to start SML life with the .45 BUT since you already have a .40 let the learning curve begin, they are not easy like the .45s but you will get there if you are patient and pay attention to proven loads.
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Post by buckeye68 on Jan 2, 2022 21:28:02 GMT -5
H4895, wool wad and a 250 gain Pittman bullet works extremely well in my Wild Bill Remington 700.
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Post by sew on Jan 2, 2022 23:03:45 GMT -5
My 40s have 60g powder chambers (by my request). I wish they had 50g powder chambers. I’d rather be shooting 228g bullets with 4198 but will likely end up with H322 in the light gun and ? In the heavy gun with heavier bullets.
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