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Post by ballistic on Dec 27, 2021 11:41:02 GMT -5
I’m going to list in order what has worked well in my .40 cal Hankins heavily built muzzy. It has a powder chamber (62 grains) and I’m smooth sizing only. Future plans are trying out full sizing. I don’t have pressure trace data - only what I’m seeing off my primers and how the next primer loads into the direct ignition bolts that can handle more pressure than others. I’m not going to list the grains I’m using as I have friends that don’t have powder chambers that run into pressure ( loose pockets for the primers ) at much lower speeds with less powder. I just want to list what powders have burnt the cleanest without having to clean between shots. I have also tested all of these powders in hot 95 degree to cold mid 30 temps. These .40,s are picky and what works in mine may not work in yours but the top 2 powders have also worked well in a few of my friends .40,s without powder chambers so there’s a chance they are worth considering.
Reloder 15 - can be shot several times (20) without cleaning but will need plug removed and barrel brushed 15-20 passes right after shooting or you won’t get the next load down the barrel the next day. Very accurate powder but gets slower on speed as temps drop -my favorite powder.
IMR 4166 - can be shot 5-8 shots on 275,s and 8-10 shots on 325,s and then needs brushing 15-20 passes
For some reason rounds go down skippy as it gets round count. Slower overall speeds than reloder 15 by 100 fps. Pretty accurate with all the combos and speeds are also a little slower in colder temps but not as much as reloder 15. My second choice on powder but reloder 15 loads much smoother
Reloder 16 - can be shot a lot without cleaning and very accurate. Loads smooth and consistent down the barrel but my speeds varied just over 100 fps with the barrel measured at the same temp ( barrel was at 70 degrees for example) needs to be brushed after shooting like reloder 15 and IMR 4166 after a range session or it won’t go down the barrel without a hammer.
Reloder 15.5 -I just tried this powder out and need more combos to give it a better review. It fouled the barrel badly in 4 shots where a hammer was needed. It did however produce 13 fps extreme spread which shows some promise and the load I tried was faster by 80 fps than I projected so I believe it burns closer to reloder 15 than reloder 16 for burn rate. It should be a good powder as 15 and 16 have produced good groups.
H4895 and IMR 4895 gave great low deviation but fouled the barrel in the middle badly and had to be brushed between every shot or it was hammer time.
So there it is. 6 months of testing with notes documented on what works from best to worst using direct ignition and large rifle primers as magnums had worse deviation on speed and we’re tested as well. I might have just opened up a can of worms but I wanted to stick my neck out and list what has worked well for me to help others out. The .40 bore is picky and others are full sizing with great results. My smooth sizing w reloder 15 is giving me consistent and tack driving results also. I welcome members to share what works as well. I know some of it is already in this .40 forum.
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Post by ultimtepredator on Dec 27, 2021 15:42:35 GMT -5
That’s good information to have and know thank you..
I did some testing yesterday with my very heavily built.40 caliber with 325’s and IMR 4955 which I believe is IMR’s enduron .. I did a 2 shot ladder test.and experience similar results as you did . Smooth size with wad.. in certain areas of the ladder bullets were almost or as u mentioned skipping, but I would hit another area usually a 1.5-2 grain area where bullets went down 3 fingers smooth as silk.. As u mentioned these.40 are a little more picky about what u feed them.. it seems when bullets were skipping or hard seating velocity was all over but when I hit the 1.5-2 grain span I mentioned my velocity was super consistent even over such large change in powder… I am also using DI in mine.
I had 2 areas of smooth seating so next range trip will be in th 2 grain areas in .3 grain differences to see what happens next..
Thanks for sharing. These are very large doses with velocity in 3260’s to 3340’s with no signs of pressure issues..
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Post by sew on Dec 29, 2021 10:48:46 GMT -5
I’ll share what little I have. 3 - 40s and my results.
Sav 10 ML2/40PN. 209/0.030” bushing. 225 and 228 AMs, smooth sized, 40 cal Maine WW. 100 - 300 yards, close to 1/2 MOA (10x scope) thru 300 yards. Loads: 5-7 VV110/60-70g Varget. Velocities 2650-2950 with 10s (lower loads) to single digits ESs(at hottest loads). Accuracy, lack of fouling and decreasing ESs all improve as loads get hotter. Moderately clean burning. (12# total wt, MB, light recoil). 10x scope. 100 yd - ragged hole, 200 yd - cloverleaf, 300 yards - depends on wind generally 1 1/2”.
The Diamond. The ultralight Jimbob 40. 9/16 DI. 60g chamber Smooth sized 225 and 228. Maine WW. 62g H322. 2770’/sec. Sub MOA (8X scope) thru 200 yards. Only test @ 300 had a 6” group but likely due to wind conditions, but unsure. Very light recoil. Clean burning. Will likely increase load. 100 yd - <0.5”, 200 yd - 0.9” , 300 yd - 6” ?? Winds were a problem.
The full sized Jimbob 40 . 60g powder chamber, 5/8 DI, Smooth sized 275/278 AMs. No wad. H4895, 73gs 2870’/sec Singe digit ES. 24X scope. 100 yd - ~0.5”, 200 yd - 1”, 300 yd - 1.9”. Winds were a problem. Bad fouling. Brass brush once in and out, each shot. 2 back to back shots would be ok. H4895 at lighter loads definitely is dirty in a 40.
Thoughts/opinions.
Duplex is very helpful in 209 40. This rifle gives up nothing in accuracy. This 2001, 458, 16 twist PN barrel was a special request for a super premium, airgauged, lapped barrel. I got my money’s worth. 3rd pillared, bedded , laminated stock. SSS 1.5# comp trigger.
H4895 is dirty in my loadings which are relatively low pressure, but works great with the between the shot brushing. Of importance, it lives up to it’s Extreme claim of being quite temp insensitive (as do the VV110/Varget loads).
H322 is likely a good choice for 40 cal 225-250 boresized shooting. Clean burning.
VV530 is on my list to find.
50g instead of 60g powder chamber is likely more practical for lighter loaded 40s. It would allow the usage of H4198 and other faster powders.
These may not be safe loadings in your rifles!
I expect that full sizing in the 40 will be more beneficial than in larger calibers. Will be using annealed 4085 253 Hammers in light 40, 273s in full sized 40.
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Post by ballistic on Jan 30, 2022 11:19:18 GMT -5
I’m going to list in order what has worked well in my .40 cal Hankins heavily built muzzy. It has a powder chamber (62 grains) and I’m smooth sizing only. Future plans are trying out full sizing. I don’t have pressure trace data - only what I’m seeing off my primers and how the next primer loads into the direct ignition bolts that can handle more pressure than others. I’m not going to list the grains I’m using as I have friends that don’t have powder chambers that run into pressure ( loose pockets for the primers ) at much lower speeds with less powder. I just want to list what powders have burnt the cleanest without having to clean between shots. I have also tested all of these powders in hot 95 degree to cold mid 30 temps. These .40,s are picky and what works in mine may not work in yours but the top 2 powders have also worked well in a few of my friends .40,s without powder chambers so there’s a chance they are worth considering. Reloder 15 - can be shot several times (20) without cleaning but will need plug removed and barrel brushed 15-20 passes right after shooting or you won’t get the next load down the barrel the next day. Very accurate powder but gets slower on speed as temps drop -my favorite powder. IMR 4166 - can be shot 5-8 shots on 275,s and 8-10 shots on 325,s and then needs brushing 15-20 passes For some reason rounds go down skippy as it gets round count. Slower overall speeds than reloder 15 by 100 fps. Pretty accurate with all the combos and speeds are also a little slower in colder temps but not as much as reloder 15. My second choice on powder but reloder 15 loads much smoother Reloder 16 - can be shot a lot without cleaning and very accurate. Loads smooth and consistent down the barrel but my speeds varied just over 100 fps with the barrel measured at the same temp ( barrel was at 70 degrees for example) needs to be brushed after shooting like reloder 15 and IMR 4166 after a range session or it won’t go down the barrel without a hammer. Reloder 15.5 -I just tried this powder out and need more combos to give it a better review. It fouled the barrel badly in 4 shots where a hammer was needed. It did however produce 13 fps extreme spread which shows some promise and the load I tried was faster by 80 fps than I projected so I believe it burns closer to reloder 15 than reloder 16 for burn rate. It should be a good powder as 15 and 16 have produced good groups. H4895 and IMR 4895 gave great low deviation but fouled the barrel in the middle badly and had to be brushed between every shot or it was hammer time. So there it is. 6 months of testing with notes documented on what works from best to worst using direct ignition and large rifle primers as magnums had worse deviation on speed and we’re tested as well. I might have just opened up a can of worms but I wanted to stick my neck out and list what has worked well for me to help others out. The .40 bore is picky and others are full sizing with great results. My smooth sizing w reloder 15 is giving me consistent and tack driving results also. I welcome members to share what works as well. I know some of it is already in this .40 forum. Update on RL15.5 powder with 325 pitmans I found a combo that worked really well from 60 down to 5 degrees as tested on the barrels temp. Speed (3000 with powder chamber and primers were curved so no pressure signs at all) were single digit. I introduced a wool wad to get the speeds to single digit and was very pleased. Very accurate combo. I would shoot and then brush it (25x) after a range session. And repeat the next time. It was my go to powder. And then - too good to be true……….. I was hunting cow elk on a cold 20 degree morning. The fog had set in but was starting to clear out = high humidity. I saw a coyote and tried/missed him at a very long ranged distance. Went to reload- poured the powder down the tube and got the bullet started down the barrel about 3”. Wouldn’t go any further. Had to find a rock and beat it down the barrel - was hard all the way to the witness mark. Then the ramrod got stuck to the bullet and 3 piece rods (collapsible) don’t come off. And then I found some elk of course. Went home frustrated -Had to remove breech plug - dump the powder - and hammer the bullet back forward to get it out the muzzle. The bore scope revealed the crud left in the grooves was as heavy as black powder. I record all my shots and the miss on the coyote was to the right so the speed was likely good. I also put a balloon over my muzzle brake to keep moisture out of the bore. I believe the humidity was likely the culprit. I live in utah where 99% of the time the humidity is 25-30 % The issue with RL15.5 occurred at likely 95% humidity. So back to RL 15- have shot it in a rainstorm and no loading issues. As stated - these .40,s are picky. This is just an update for results on my testing - might help others out. I believe the humidity immediately absorbed ( right after the shot) into the carbon deposits inside the barrel forming the crud. I have seen this happen on high humid days with blackpowder. Can’t prove it - just a hunch. I brushed the barrel out 25x and the bore scope showed really clean barrel again. Tried a few down the tube and they went down easily. This likely isn’t a good powder for high humidity - but your results may be different. Another thread could be created just to deal with humidity- I’m sure others have some more insight. |
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Post by hillbill on Jan 30, 2022 12:01:14 GMT -5
As has been repeated many times
These .40 caliber bores are very finicky ESPECIALLY with land rider bullets, my findings are that full formed bullets are not so much but we are still testing new combos, they are also very accurate when you find something that works.
Humidity makes a large difference in the way these guns foul, even in the .45s, here in Tn we have high humidity on a consistent basis, throw temp swings into the mix and it gets interesting.
I appreciate these guys sharing their findings with the .40 calibers, not many of us exist and the more good info we can gather and share the more successful we will be with these guns.
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Post by sew on Jan 30, 2022 19:33:47 GMT -5
H322 - 62g , DI, 328 AM, 24” barrel, 2770. Same loading after 8 shots.
H4895, 73g , 278 AM, wire brush (once, in and out) between each shot required, 2870.
Plan to go up on H322 some. Quite clean. Hi humidity here.
Plan on testing 253 Hammers (annealed/full sized) with 2015. Historically, this has been a clean powder in smokeless MLers. Will also test VV130 and VV135.
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