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Post by smokelessk on Nov 11, 2021 14:25:05 GMT -5
Purchased a used 20" Encore barrel chambered for the 460 S&W. Of course, no brass or dies to be found. Anyone else loading or shooting the 460 in a rifle/carbine barrel?
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Post by dennis on Nov 11, 2021 20:37:10 GMT -5
A friend recently bought a MGM 460 barrel 24". I will ask him if he has any brass he would part with. He has owned 460 pistols for yrs.
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Post by dennis on Nov 12, 2021 12:19:42 GMT -5
Checked with my friend and he won't part with anything but said he thought he saw some at a shop in Middlebourne, WV.
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Post by smokelessk on Nov 12, 2021 19:53:24 GMT -5
Checked with my friend and he won't part with anything but said he thought he saw some at a shop in Middlebourne, WV. Thank you Dennis for asking. I perfectly understand his position. I would be curious to what loads he is running in his MGM. And how they are performing. Not a ton of reliable data available for the 460 in the rifle/carbine configuration. |
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Post by dennis on Nov 12, 2021 20:30:14 GMT -5
I'll check with him tomorrow on a load.
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Post by dennis on Nov 12, 2021 20:46:05 GMT -5
I'll check with him tomorrow on a load. sent you a pm |
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Post by smokelessk on Nov 20, 2021 4:58:15 GMT -5
 Barrel arrived, boy 20 inches on an Encore frame is real short. Even with the brake attached it's short. |
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Post by deadeer on Nov 20, 2021 7:05:47 GMT -5
Not many guys get full power 460 loads to shoot good in an Encore, myself included. Dropping down to 454 Casull loads or less made all the difference for me.
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Post by smokelessk on Nov 20, 2021 10:13:56 GMT -5
Not many guys get full power 460 loads to shoot good in an Encore, myself included. Dropping down to 454 Casull loads or less made all the difference for me. Interesting. I wonder what the reasons for that are? |
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Post by deadeer on Nov 20, 2021 11:54:03 GMT -5
Not many guys get full power 460 loads to shoot good in an Encore, myself included. Dropping down to 454 Casull loads or less made all the difference for me. Interesting. I wonder what the reasons for that are? Idk if too much flex/give in the break action, or barrel harmonics or what. But it's pretty brutal as well. I tried about 5 different brakes too without much luck. The shorter the barrel the better, as the fast burning powder gas is used up pretty quick. I did find a full case of H4198 and a 300gr bullet was the best I got to shoot, but it's not fast since the amount is low. |
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Post by smokelessk on Nov 20, 2021 14:46:09 GMT -5
What barrel is on yours? This is a factory TC Katahdin barrel. I don't really know what exactly to expect for performance from it. I certainly don't expect it to shoot as well as the smokeless muzzleloader barrel.
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Post by deadeer on Nov 20, 2021 15:30:30 GMT -5
What barrel is on yours? This is a factory TC Katahdin barrel. I don't really know what exactly to expect for performance from it. I certainly don't expect it to shoot as well as the smokeless muzzleloader barrel. MGM. I sold it and now have the 450bm from them and it shoots straight. |
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Post by 71yella on Nov 20, 2021 16:28:53 GMT -5
I have a custom 454 casull barrel on an H&R handi, 22" no brake, OD is straight .980 from strp down to muzzle, heavy little sucker and it still kicks, but i can launch 250SSt over 37.0 H110 at 2270fps.
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Post by smokelessk on Nov 20, 2021 16:34:20 GMT -5
Interesting. I looked at their barrels too in 460 before I bought the one I did. I wonder what the issue was with yours not shooting well, but the bushmaster shoots good.
What would be your comparison between the two cartridges ballistically? Since you have owned both on the same frame. There is not much reliable information on the 460 in a barrel longer than the standard pistol lengths.
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Post by deadeer on Nov 20, 2021 17:29:31 GMT -5
Idk, if I could answer that I would still have it. Lol. My new 450 is a muzzleloader profile, quite heavy. So stiffer, plus I always wandered if the lrmp was too much?
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Post by smokelessk on Nov 21, 2021 5:46:32 GMT -5
I'm thinking I'll get a dedicated forend for this barrel. Probably a black flex Tec one. Since I know of no way to free float the barrel my thinking is a full length bedding job on the forend. Pretty much fill up the forend with bedding compound. Seems logical to me? With the break action one is pretty limited to the usual stock working chores. My thought is it certainly can't hurt to have the barrel bedded to the forend. Might not improve anything, but how else would you know if you don't try it.
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Post by deadeer on Nov 21, 2021 5:59:10 GMT -5
Thinking about it, my 460 was 24". Maybe that didnt help matters? I tried all bullet weights from 200-335gr. Powders fast to slow. Wish I could have all the components back I burnt up. Lol.
I have bedded a couple forends. It certainly cant hurt, but I havent noticed any improvement in accuracy. I have been using Encores since 1998 and have been very happy except for 3 barrels out of approx 35 now. I have got all the rest shooting moa with handloads. Pistol barrels by far the easiest and most consistently.
It all depends on your expectations too. Looking forward to following along and hope you find success in your setup fairly easily.
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Post by smokelessk on Nov 22, 2021 5:09:20 GMT -5
Did you try any Barnes bullets? I read one review on Barnes. The guy was using them in a Katahdin 500 Smith. Said all the other bullets he tried did not shoot well, but the Barnes did.
From the little bit of digging I did using the resources on Hogdon's website I made a "general" comparison to the load data for the Bushmaster. The 460 is definitely a higher pressure cartridge, considerably higher. Velocity listed was not significantly more than the Bushmaster, but the 460 data was also not generated in a rifle length barrel. I thought the two cartridges would be pretty "equal." But it definitely seems the 460 is engineered for hotter loads.
Although, if I want hot I'll shoot a 300 grain Aeromax out of my bolt gun at over 2,800 fps. With the 460 extreme speed is not a focus. Something comfortable to shoot, along with satisfactory terminal performance and preferably a sub MOA load is what I hope to achieve.
This is my first endeavor into the Encore platform. My ears are open on any suggestions or tips. Sounds like you are a fan of the platform, with owning as many barrels as you have. My best friend and I are both using an Encore frame. I believe we have like 8 or 9 different barrels now. Although two of them will probably never be shot by us. A 12 gauge slug barrel and a 50 cal muzzleloader.
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Post by deadeer on Nov 22, 2021 7:45:46 GMT -5
I only got started in Encores because IN allowed hpr cartridges in pistol only back in the day, and I wanted long range performance. They did not disappoint!
I eventually graduated to a Savage 10ml2 and then Rem 700ml, both wearing 45 Pacnors and 209 ignition. We have since been allowed hpr, so my muzzleloader passion halted since I do most harvesting in gun season. My plain Jane mz's are plenty adequate for my purposes still.
If you get on the MGM website, youll find they dont recommend the 460sw but do the 450bm. Think they said it's just a little too much for the gun.
They have a couple articles about velocity differences and chopping barrel lengths while clocking speeds in different calibers.
If not going for massive power loads as you stated, you should be able to come up with something. I remember terrible vertical stringing.
I never tried and mono's or Barnes in the 460, but am shooting Hornady monoflex in my 450 now.
My buddy still has the same barrel you do. His best load is a factory 200gr sst. Otherwise he uses 454 Casull loads for usable accuracy.
I just use common sense, normal load building practices and be sensible. You should be able to have fun finding something to work. Good luck.
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Post by smokelessk on Nov 26, 2021 18:15:12 GMT -5
Thinking about it, my 460 was 24". Maybe that didnt help matters? I tried all bullet weights from 200-335gr. Powders fast to slow. Wish I could have all the components back I burnt up. Lol. I have bedded a couple forends. It certainly cant hurt, but I havent noticed any improvement in accuracy. I have been using Encores since 1998 and have been very happy except for 3 barrels out of approx 35 now. I have got all the rest shooting moa with handloads. Pistol barrels by far the easiest and most consistently. It all depends on your expectations too. Looking forward to following along and hope you find success in your setup fairly easily. I am planning to add some weight to this gun as well. Strange as that may sound. It is definitely light in the muzzle, and this is without a scope. Going to put some lead solder wire in the forend before bedding it. Maybe 6 ounces or so. I prefer the weight balance to be forward on a heavy recoiling gun. We used to use lead solder to add weight on some of our competition guns. Normally it would be wrapped around the barrel and they wrapped over with electrical tape. I may try that too. We shall see what it takes to get it to shoot. |
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