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Post by linebaugh on Dec 30, 2015 12:02:11 GMT -5
Okay for ease of explaining things I will refer to the 209 as an inner and outer primer thus meaning the LRP center and the 209 outer primer carrier.
So my question is how many of you are experiencing leakage between the inner and outer primer? How many are seeing flame/pressure cutting in your bolt heads or single shot actions due to the leakage between inner/outer? Does anybody have a solution to this problem? I once thought that by fully supporting the primer with a tight slip fit this may go away but I just saw where Jeff made modules, I assume press fit, to hold the 209 and still had leakage.
I am working through the infancy and thought process of a very unique smokeless muzzy build and would like the ease of using 209's if someone can tell me how to keep them from leaking. I am not interested in flame channel enlargement or any of that hubub as a fix and I don't want to mess with cleaning the carbon out of my plug ever. The loads I plan to use will be in the 55-60psi range.
My present system uses cut down hornet cases and works fine but I want to make things much more robust. I know Jeff has a great system and I know it would hold up well but it's more than I want to spend and I like to have 100 or more modules which would add greatly to the cost.
If 209 ignition is realistic let me know how you propose to make this happen without leakage.
Thanks for reading.
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Post by hillbill on Dec 30, 2015 13:09:10 GMT -5
209s are all slightly different in dia and length, in order to have a 100% seal one MUST choose a specific primer and tailor the primer pocket to that specific primer.
Federal 209A and CCI 209M are not round and If you plan to seal them on the outer rim you are in for a difficult task. the only way to seal them 100% IMO is to headspace them off the nose of the primer and it has to be close to perfect. too much space and you get blowby, too little and you either can't close the action or bolt or worse, crush the primer.
one tries to achieve a slight resistance fit and the primer seals on the nose, a much smaller sealing surface than around the primer sides. is this doable? Yes it is but the primer pocket must start out shallow and be cut to exact fit OR shims must be added to achieve the desired fit.
On the other hand Winchester 209s are round and have a slight step that can be sealed relatively easily by a snug fit inside the pocket sides, I have a .375 that shoots 300 grn bullets with pressures that I estimate into the 50s with 100% seal and 0 leakage anywhere.
keep in mind that with most any plug design you will eventually have to clean carbon out of the flame channel, especially with a bushing plug as carbon builds between the primer and the bushing but its no big deal to do and not a deal breaker for me.
I use both the HIS system and 209s in several different guns and will continue to do so, both have their merits BUT to get 100% 209 seal some work and patience is involved. Jeff's modules seal great and he does all the work...
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Post by linebaugh on Dec 30, 2015 14:13:12 GMT -5
I have used the Winchesters from day one in my builds. I even used the 777 primers for a while until everyone scared me away from them claiming I would have ignition failure. They were somewhat correct in that when I let my plug get dirty the 777 would give me some misfires. When the plug was clean I never had a problem.
Do you think I could forgo the flame channel "if" I could get the 209 supported to the rim and not have leakage between inner and outer? What about extraction from the primer swelling?
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Dec 30, 2015 14:36:07 GMT -5
What you are describing. ..sounds to me almost like bulging primer problems.... possiblyfrom a restricted flame channel? I do know that the win 209 primer has given me.no problems at all when the plug is fitted for them. Drop
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2015 14:47:01 GMT -5
What you are describing. ..sounds to me almost like bulging primer problems.... possiblyfrom a restricted flame channel? I do know that the win 209 primer has given me.no problems at all when the plug is fitted for them. Drop +1
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Post by lakeplainshunter on Dec 30, 2015 17:03:14 GMT -5
I use custom Savage style breechplugs with Federal 209A Primers sealing on the Primer Nose in my Remington 700 MLs. I see lite leakage around the battery cup resulting in a little black soot on the face on the bolt. It scrapes off easily using a toothpick. I do not know any way to stop this. It is pretty insignificant for me.
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Post by YankeeReb on Jan 2, 2016 19:58:53 GMT -5
Even if its sealed up front I never seen a 209 that didn't leak around the battering cup with a high pressure load. I think if it was press fitted or close to it into a module or breech plug primmer pocket to support the outer case would totally seal it.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2016 20:32:03 GMT -5
Every now and then I experience the the inner cup on a Winchester 209 loosen or separate from the main body of the primer...Doesn't look like excessive pressure, no bulging. No biggy...Rarely happens Zen
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