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Post by hillbill on Jun 16, 2021 17:22:26 GMT -5
How much interest is out there in the .40 cal info???
in specific: powders tested per given bullet weight My information will be limited to these bullets
273 Hammer 297 Hammer 275 accumax 300 Accumax 325 Aeromax 350 Aeromax
To some extent I have kept records for the last 3 years of testing .40 stuff so I have some info written down, while they will not be recommended loads they will be true to life info of my findings in the .40 bore of which myself and several others are still experimenting with to this day.
It would take some time to put together and would likely need to be separated from .45 cal info altogether. Thoughts??
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Post by joelmoney on Jun 16, 2021 17:33:27 GMT -5
You have always been a great help with information Bill. Seeing your trials with different powders would be a joy to see. That would be some pretty interesting information.
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Post by jims on Jun 16, 2021 19:41:33 GMT -5
I have had a .40 for years but have never shot a bullet heavier than 230 grains or so. Will follow your results however.
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Post by ultimtepredator on Jun 16, 2021 20:16:39 GMT -5
I also am one who has been and still experimenting with the big .40 caliber and mostly large doses of slow powder… Having some great days and some ready to kick and throw stuff days not to mention, I do feel we are starting to narrow it down to what these big guns are liking… some having great groups with RL-16 and RL-23 I’m experimenting with VV-N560 and IMR 4955 delivered tomorrow to test with the 350 aeromax..
But some have the 325’s figured out shooting.271’s at 400 yards and I am determined to find that holy grail load in the slow burn powder…When I feel I have it it doesn’t repeat next range trip for what ever reason… I do know we are really close to a set load from 3158 FPS to high as 3260’s.. which calculates from.625-.630 plus BC’s
Incredible!!!!!
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Post by Tanner13 on Jun 17, 2021 1:12:44 GMT -5
I imagine .40 cal interest will o ly increase from here on out. Just the natural progression of things. While the data I'll be posting soon will be with bullets 250gr and less out of a prefit, I'd still love to see any data you can share.
I hope here in the future we can demystify a lot of the relative unknowns of the .40 cal. I'm excited to help out in any way I can.
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Post by Sideshow on Jun 17, 2021 6:46:18 GMT -5
I think theres more interest than you may think especially with Jeff selling out of barrels a few times for 40s . Shared info and thoughts may help alot with the progression of suitable loads . At least it would be a start ?? Pretty important id say for many . Possibly eliminateing bad combinations is a time and money saver too . With 40 development being difficult this is a Great Idea for centralized shared info !!! It surely is Needed .
Barrel and / or bp catagories with sizes would be great too . Modual material is also a good idea listed , brass or AB .
As for bullets & weights i got them coming outta my ears -- 225 , 240ot , 250 , 275 , and 325 . Alot of testing to be done !!!
Color me crazy but ive often thought that a harmonic or reflective wave change based on atmospheric is responsible for a 40s inconsistancys with some loads . A racing engine gets twitchy then too when highly developed for a narrow band . The laws of physics cannot lie . My 2 cents anyway.....
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Post by ultimtepredator on Jun 17, 2021 7:03:57 GMT -5
I have witnessed a .220 group shot at my range with a 275 accumax and H4895 ..at 300 yards on a not so calm cold day before Ohio gun season..
The lighter Bullets seems to be more accurate. I love to shoot and love a good challenge so I’m sticking to heavy..
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Post by hillbill on Jun 17, 2021 8:39:30 GMT -5
The big thing about the .40 caliber is the ability to swell the bullet, the smaller bore size with a somewhat long bullet makes it tough.
the lighter bullets are easier to get to cooperate but you still have the obsticle of a good clean powder burn with whatever charge you choose.
Tom Post told me years ago that as a general rule anything below .45 caliber must be full formed, he knows what he is talking about.
what we are doing with land rider bullets in the .408 bore is on the ragged edge.
The longer heavier bullets are even more difficult to swell due to the length vs diameter or what i will refer to as "bullet density".
The .40 has more "density" to push with a smaller surface area to push against which makes it a challenge.
We are getting there but it takes a lot of testing which equates to time and money.
I can list my findings with the listed bullets if others are willing to list loads for the lighter bullets.
Collectively we can come up with a decent overview of .40 caliber loads.
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Post by buckeye68 on Jun 17, 2021 11:07:49 GMT -5
I’ll be more than glad to list my load data on the 40 using the 250 grain Pittman AccuMax. It’s taken deer from 179 yards to 619 yards.
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Post by fatfred on Jun 17, 2021 19:13:40 GMT -5
I will never own a .40 cal SML (I don't think) but love reading what you are all doing with them. Once we went to rifle in 2011, the SML comes out for one weekend. The Savage is a savage and does all I need. Had we never opened rifle here I would almost certainly have a serious addiction to what has been done with the sub bore and sabotless. There is almost no difference to a real rifle like performance at sane yardages in the deer woods. Still, it is always a great read to see what is going on in the world. Bring on the data
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Post by sew on Jun 17, 2021 19:48:17 GMT -5
The big thing about the .40 caliber is the ability to swell the bullet, the smaller bore size with a somewhat long bullet makes it tough. the lighter bullets are easier to get to cooperate but you still have the obsticle of a good clean powder burn with whatever charge you choose. Tom Post told me years ago that as a general rule anything below .45 caliber must be full formed, he knows what he is talking about. what we are doing with land rider bullets in the .408 bore is on the ragged edge. The longer heavier bullets are even more difficult to swell due to the length vs diameter or what i will refer to as "bullet density". The .40 has more "density" to push with a smaller surface area to push against which makes it a challenge. We are getting there but it takes a lot of testing which equates to time and money. I can list my findings with the listed bullets if others are willing to list loads for the lighter bullets. Collectively we can come up with a decent overview of .40 caliber loads. Bill, These have been my exact thoughts for years. I now have seperate full sizing dies for my light and heavy(to me) 40s and a smooth sizer for my 10ML2/40 PN. My “heavy” bullets will be 275/278 AccuMaxes out of the heavy 40 and 225/228 AMs and 253 Hammers out of the light 40. I’ve used duplex in the 40PN for years for a fast, thorough obturation. Loads for the light 40 will likely be H322 in the low to mid 60s. 75g H4895/275g bullets/HIS in the heavy 40 keeps building fouling which I use a brush with 1 pass to keep clean enough to load consistently. NOT ideal. 6.5/65 of VV110/Varget has given 1/2 MOA accuracy out of the Savage out thru 300 yards with 225 AccuMaxes . 7/70 even better at 2950 but is likely too hot. 209 ignition. I got smaller ESs with duplex with the 7/70 load being in the single digits. Wire brush in and out between shots. Fouling has been a problem but wire brush between shots keeps velocities close. Still, not ideal. I’m convinced, that consistent obturation is important to achieve, and a very quick pressure rise. In both my modern 40s, I’ll be using DI and full formed bullets. Duplex? Likely. Ultimate goal - good hunting loads and not embarrass myself at future shoots. I hope to start shooting in earnest in July. The loads mentioned may not be safe in others’ rifles or even mine. Especially not a double load. Marked ramrods are maybe even more important with 40s. |
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Post by hillbill on Jun 17, 2021 21:47:50 GMT -5
I am testing my 1760 gun now with the 350 Aeromax full formed and VV N-560, so far things seem to be going well as I seem to have found a node @ 3260 fps from the 32" very heavy Brux 14 twist barrel along with a wad and DI ignition.
Tonight I was fortunate to get to go over and shoot with bkm, it was the first time I had shot the gun past 100 yards doing ladder tests since installing the new barrel.
I dialed up what the app called for @ 500 and put three shots in a fairly decent group, I then dialed up 18.75 MOA and went to the gong @ 1000, it was a hit.
On to the 1000 yd paper, three shots into 5.3" then on to 1375 for a 1st round hit on the steel.
Keith has a steel plate @ 1603 so what the heck?
I dialed up 44.5 MOA and made a first round hit?
I ended up with three shots on steel @ 1603 yds, will it make it to 1760 with some measure of accuracy? I think so?
The .40 caliber has some merit at really long range, my dial ups were neck and neck with a 300 Ultra shooting 215 Bergers out to 1603, not too bad for a front stuffer.
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Post by joelmoney on Jun 17, 2021 21:57:17 GMT -5
WOW. Your goal sounds certainly attainable.
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Post by ultimtepredator on Jun 18, 2021 8:06:22 GMT -5
Congratulations Bill !! I seen the groups shot with the heavy built.40 , very impressive at 500,1000 and 1603 yards…
Great shooting
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Post by Chad on Jun 18, 2021 10:28:39 GMT -5
That is really impressive Bill, someone that hasn’t messed with these wouldn’t believe how they shoot. I’m sure it will do what you’re expecting from it.
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Post by Kyle on Jun 18, 2021 13:40:31 GMT -5
Good shooting Bill! At 1603 yards impact velocity is somewhere in the neighborhood of 1322 FPS. At 1760 yards should be around 1213 FPS with + 54.25 to + 54.75 MOA on the scope.
5.3” group at 1000 is great out of any gun in my opinion. I don’t know why anyone would consider a .40 😀.
On January 6th 2020 I managed to shoot a 8.22” 5 shot 1000 yard group at Dead Zero with my .40. The load I was shooting at that target was with hard modules, CCI250’s and 108gr of RL16 350 Aeromax .402” smooth sized, 2907 average MV. Temp was 45 degrees, 1840’ elevation.
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Post by hillbill on Jun 18, 2021 15:24:02 GMT -5
Some day Kyle I hope to make hits @ a mile and I fully believe the bullet/load are capable if the shooter is up to it.
Some think it's a pipe dream or hog wash but those of us in the game know better.
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Post by shindig on Jun 19, 2021 7:09:46 GMT -5
Congratulations Bill , Great shooting
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Post by dennis on Jun 19, 2021 9:47:51 GMT -5
I watch the 40 stuff but will most probably never get into it. Great shooting Bill, I am interested to see (when) loads are repeatable in different temp and or humidity conditions as I have heard some are fighting this. I'm sure eventually you OCD, or should I say persistent, 40 shooters will figure it out in time. (GOOD STUFF)
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Post by Richard on Jun 19, 2021 17:54:54 GMT -5
Hillbill and Kyle............great shooting by both. While I am not going to venture into it, it is mainly because I have no use for it? There is no formal competition for it? I am close enough to Hawk's Ridge, which has 1K but no competition like the IBS matches that are held there. It was evident that at our shoots in Kentucky that the .40's don't really have an edge over the .45's. At my age, I am looking more to scale back and not add a lot of equipment that my wife will have to liquidate when I "kick the bucket!  " I have not doubt that with the bullets Kyle is producing that One Mile is definitely doable! Here again, the only disadvantage with group shooting at that distance is the ability to shoot rapidly under a specific wind condition. If you are able to get an early morning or late evening start when the conditions are favorable and hold for a long enough period, then those groups are very doable with the equipment we have available. In any event, I applaud the effort by several members here to play the long range muzzle loader game. Davey Crockett would be going bonkers to see what these smoke(less) poles are capable of! |
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