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Post by yoderjac on Nov 7, 2021 14:27:28 GMT -5
I push firmly on the module with my thumb and it closes perfectly and that's after shimming the round block ahead to adjust headspace. I have an SIII 3.5-10x44 illuminated dot on my encore mounted with Seekins rings and my rail is epoxied and torqued on the barrel. I check rings every so often but nothing seems to loosen up. When I put my Encore together I must have read every break action post on this board twice looking for constant issues. Nock on wood haven't had any yet! Good luck. I have not messed with headspace. I'm still getting a handle on the gun. If I push mine firmly with my thumb, it wants to jump over the extractor and then I have a problem. Mine go in fine and the breach locks-up well, it just takes a lot of force to close it. |
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Post by yoderjac on Nov 11, 2021 20:35:26 GMT -5
Just a quick update. After my last range session, I thought I solved the problem. Tonight, I had a buck at 160 yards. Considering the previous issues I've had, I decided to pass. About an hour later, 3 does came out of the brush into the field. They were all between 100 and 120 yards. The biggest was at 100 yards so I decided to take her. I aimed at her shoulder again, exactly where I aimed at the other deer. All three does took off running into the brush after the shot. My heart sank.
After reloading and waiting for about 15 minutes, I decided to head out with a flashlight. It was hard to ID the exact impact site in an open field and I found no blood. It was now after dark. I decided to head in the direction the deer ran with the FLIR.
There she was dead as a door nail in the brush. She had run less than 50 yards but fell in a dip. The light was low enough when I took the shot that I did not see her fall with the other deer running. The shot impacted exactly at my aiming point on her shoulder. It left a huge hole and continued into her chest.
That really helped build begin building my confidence in the gun again!
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Post by dennis on Nov 11, 2021 20:41:29 GMT -5
Congrats on the doe. Hopefully you have your problem solved.
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Post by buckeye68 on Nov 11, 2021 21:12:07 GMT -5
Awesome!
What did it end up being and what did you do to correct the problem.
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Post by yoderjac on Nov 11, 2021 22:28:56 GMT -5
Awesome! What did it end up being and what did you do to correct the problem. I'm still not 100% sure what happened on the first doe I missed with it. Perhaps I just flinched. I headed to the range and the gun was on. I believe that after that trip to the range, the QR lever got smacked. I think the first deer after the the leaver was loose, the scope was still on and I got a good hit at my aim point at 60 yards. I believe that the recoil from that shot was enough to through the scope off with that loose lever. That accounts for the next deer that was shot in the neck near the head when I aimed at the shoulder. I found it loose and the gun was not even on paper when I went to the range next time. I tightened that leaver and re-sighted it in on my last trip to the range. I've been checking those levers twice a day and they have not budged. So far, so good! |
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Post by yoderjac on Nov 11, 2021 22:35:10 GMT -5
So, that's the good news, but I am having a new issue. It has happened twice so far. The issue is that the module is slipping past the ejector. It happened once and I figured it was a fluke, but it happened again tonight. In both cases, I was able to slip a small screwdriver under the module where the ejector goes to pop out he module.
Tomorrow ends our muzzleloader season. So, after that hunt, I plan to do a disassembly and thorough cleaning. When I do that, I'll be removing the ejector and I'll examine it closely to make sure it is not bent or something. I can certainly imagine how It could have gotten bent given how much force it takes to close the breach sometimes.
Keep in mind this is my first smokeless muzzleloader. It certainly could have been user error when I first got the gun that cause the issue. I'll know more tomorrow night after the cleaning and examination.
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Post by buckeye68 on Nov 11, 2021 22:45:40 GMT -5
So, that's the good news, but I am having a new issue. It has happened twice so far. The issue is that the module is slipping past the ejector. It happened once and I figured it was a fluke, but it happened again tonight. In both cases, I was able to slip a small screwdriver under the module where the ejector goes to pop out he module. Tomorrow ends our muzzleloader season. So, after that hunt, I plan to do a disassembly and thorough cleaning. When I do that, I'll be removing the ejector and I'll examine it closely to make sure it is not bent or something. I can certainly imagine how It could have gotten bent given how much force it takes to close the breach sometimes. Keep in mind this is my first smokeless muzzleloader. It certainly could have been user error when I first got the gun that cause the issue. I'll know more tomorrow night after the cleaning and examination. Put a DI plug in it and your trouble will go away with your ejector. I removed mine completely out of my break action. Yes you have to have a nut driver in the field but it not a big deal to spin it out and spin a new one in. |
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Post by yoderjac on Nov 11, 2021 23:33:29 GMT -5
I guess DI is an option, but I'd like to get the HIS working the way it should.
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Post by yoderjac on Dec 2, 2021 18:50:18 GMT -5
Our muzzleloader season is now over and we are in middle of general firearms season. I've had some time to think about the scope issue I had earlier. I have been using high end Leupold scopes on many of my guns for a long time. Most all of them have quick release rings. This is the first time, a release leaver ever got bumped and came loose. On top of that, when I tightened the quick release leaver, I was not on paper. With every other gun, when I remove and then reinstall the scope, it need only a click or two of fine tuning at the range at most. Often, no adjustment is needed.
As I was contemplating this in the stand with my .300 Win Mag barrel on my Encore, it dawned on me. All of my other guns are drilled an tapped for the scope base, they they all have Leupold bases with their quick release rings. My smokeless that I bought from Jeff has a picatinny rail base. This makes sense now. When Leupold is machining both the rings and base, they are going to get much more precision than when they are producing quick release rings that fit weaver or picatinny bases.
It is all now making sense to me.
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Post by joelmoney on Dec 2, 2021 23:54:17 GMT -5
I could be wrong but I don’t think a your problem was the base you are using.
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Post by hillbill on Dec 3, 2021 7:25:24 GMT -5
Do yourself a favor and get some good tactical rings
Years ago I too used the same rings you are but after several issues I no longer use them
Remember
The SML is a far different animal from a center fire rifle
I can get by using different scopes and mounting systems on a regular rifle and seldom ever have issues, not so with these muzzleloaders
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Post by buckeye68 on Dec 3, 2021 8:42:12 GMT -5
I could be wrong but I don’t think a your problem was the base you are using. You are completely correct. The base has nothing to do with it. Anytime you can bump something like a scope ring and it comes loose, it’s a problem. I guess i didn’t understand the point of running Leopold QD style rings on anything. Anytime you just use your finger to lock them in place you’re asking for them to come loose. I have 2 hunting SPML I hunt with and they use the same scope. Both have pic rails on them. The 40 cal is a Remington 700 action with a 20 MOA Hankins base and the other is a CVA Scout with a Hankins base. I use NF 6 bolt rings. I can change out the scope from one gun to the next gun in less than two minutes. I write down the scope setting for each gun and dial to the correct setting after the change. Then I will verify my 100 yard zero at the range before I go hunting and make any necessary adjustments. I’ve never been more than a click or two off from one gun to the other gun. If you look at all the top shooters in the nation, that fly with their equipment most of them remove their scopes and carry them with them in their check luggage to protect from damage. If you check the equipment list you will find zero use for Leopold’s QD rings. There’s a reason why... it’s because they will come loose at some point and they do not and will not take that chance. Do do your self a favor and buy a torque wench and good quality set of rings and you will never have that issue again. |
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Post by yoderjac on Dec 3, 2021 22:35:02 GMT -5
Perhaps I wasn't clear. I'm not saying the base is an issue. I'm saying that the Leupold base and QR rings use a completely different design. The leavers are much smaller and less exposed where they can get smacked. My issue was that one of the leavers go smacked.
My point was that will all of my other Leupold scopes when I remove them and then put them back on, it is only a click or two fine tuning at the range to get them dead on again. Not only are the leavers larger and more aped to get smacked, the return to zero is not as accurate. I didn't even remove the scope, one leaver just got smacked. When I found it and tightened it, the impact point was not even on paper. However, once I sighted it back in, it is rock solid.
I'm attributing this to the fact that when you design QR rings to an industry standard base like picatinny, you have limitations that you don't have when you are designing both the base and rings.
Having said that, this is my first SML. Perhaps there is something different in terms of recoil that will affect these rings, but I doubt it. Time will tell. I have a much lighter .300 Win Mag barrel on the same frame and never had an issue with the much smaller leavers getting bumped. Maybe they won't hold up to the SML. If not, I'll report back.
I do agree that the larger leavers that protrude more are a potential issue.
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Post by yoderjac on Aug 13, 2022 14:22:17 GMT -5
Finally after getting a Labradar, I got back to the range. I now feels much more comfortable with my process.  I started with a clean barrel. The first shot for fouling (shot 0) was low and left. I wasn't too careful with the shot. I was still learning the labradar and did not have it in the right mode to capture the shot. Shots 1, 2, and 3 were taken with the fouled barrel and were all captured by the lab radar. Stats - Average 2567.27 fps Stats - Highest 2574.44 fps Stats - Lowest 2554.5 fps Stats - Ext. Spread 19.94 fps Stats - Std. Dev 11.08 fps Shot ID V0 V20 V40 V60 V80 V100 Ke0 Ke20 Ke40 Ke60 Ke80 Ke100 PF20 Proj. Weight Date Time 1 2555 2500 2447 2393 2339 2285 3983 3816 3654 3494 3340 3187 687.5 275 8/13/2022 11:30:14 2 2574 2516 2462 2407 2352 2299 4046 3866 3700 3537 3376 3225 691.9 275 8/13/2022 11:36:59 3 2573 2524 2471 2417 2363 2313 4041 3890 3727 3565 3408 3266 694.1 275 8/13/2022 11:42:02 With an ES of 20fps, I'm now much less concerned. It appears the all the variability was with the old chronograph or the setup. |
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Post by bakaboy on Aug 29, 2022 18:15:15 GMT -5
I love those Leupy QRW rings -- for my .22 short rifle. I agree with Hillbill. Over 30 plus years of shooting magnum rifles and muzzleloaders, I came to the conclusion that tactical rings like the vortex with the 12 screws (three on each side of each ring) are the only way to go. I've had too many multiple range trips, blown hunts, and hair-pulling accuracy problems with lesser ring systems.
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Post by yoderjac on Aug 30, 2022 9:30:27 GMT -5
Things have been pretty solid from a scope perspective. I believe the leaver was actually bumped on the QR rings which caused the original problem. Since then, I've had no issue related to recoil loosening or anything. If I have any other issue, I will go to the tactical type rings.
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Post by yoderjac on Sept 30, 2022 20:52:31 GMT -5
Not sure why it took me so long, but I finally ordered the CDS dial for my scope now that I have consistent velocities from the labradar from my latest range work. Hopefully it comes in time for the season and gives me more confidence taking longer shots.
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Post by yoderjac on Jun 1, 2023 19:00:40 GMT -5
I scavenged my TC Encore muzzleloader for the frame to complete this SML. I figured I'd just buy another from TC, but that ended up being the time when S&W stopped production. I finally sucked it up and bought a new frame on Gunbroker to rebuild my original muzzleloader. I picked it up today. I thought I had a spring kit on hand, but I could not find it. I ordered another one. It also did not come with a grip bolt and washer so I ordered one of them too. So today I just tore it apart and cleaned it up. It is in pretty reasonable shape. It is an original NH version. Here it is, fresh out of the ultrasonic cleaner drying.  When the spring kit comes in, I reassemble it (provided I can remember where all the parts go  ). |
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Post by yoderjac on Jun 6, 2023 16:01:11 GMT -5
Ouch! The spring kit and other items came in last night so I decided to do the rebuild today. When I laid out the parts, I had somehow lost the hammer strut! I looked everywhere and even ran a pickup magnet all over the floor. All I can figure is that I somehow dropped it when removing it from the ultrasonic cleaner. I don't see it in the picture above, but I know it was there when I disassembled the receiver.
I've looked on-line and can't find anyone that has one. I guess if push comes to shove, I can take one out of another encore and use is as a pattern to fabricate one myself, but I'd really like to find one. If anyone has any leads, please let me know.
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Post by yoderjac on Jun 6, 2023 16:52:01 GMT -5
Thanks goodness, I just found one on ebay!
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