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Post by elkman1310 on Apr 2, 2021 19:21:12 GMT -5
This looks like a very interesting muzzleloader with a claimed speed of 2850fps with a 119grs of BH209. For under $1.200.00 shoots the new .225gr ELR bullet. To bad they don't proof test it for smokeless. In the states where it would be legal to hunt with it should be a really good flat shooting gun. None avaible as of yet. And they upped the powder charge on the 45 Caliber to get the speed up to 2450fps with the 280gr bullet. For the people that can't afford to go all the way to a smokeless bolt gun this might be just what they need.
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Post by elkman1310 on Apr 2, 2021 20:14:52 GMT -5
Wrong on their advertise velocity 40 caliber 2740fps the 45 caliber 2560 fps still pretty good. At a 119grs of BH209 a 10oz can won't last long. Don't know what they changed to up the powder charge from last years model same variflame ignition.
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Post by Kyle on Apr 2, 2021 22:04:41 GMT -5
I have had more than one customer give me feedback that the .452” diameter bullets free fall muzzle to breech without sizing. I have had others say that no sizing was required and some that had to size their bullets. I’m curious if the same feedback is given with the .40 version.
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Post by joelmoney on Apr 2, 2021 23:59:48 GMT -5
I shoot almost that speed in mybreak action with slow powder and Aeromax 325’s. I’ll take a DI break action. I am also not a fan of Powerbelts.
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Post by elkman1310 on Apr 3, 2021 8:11:13 GMT -5
I don't think the 40 caliber is out in the general public yet. As far as the 45 caliber I can believe there would be a issue with shooting sabtless all depends on what bore demensions they run thats why they use a ELR Powerbelt design.
I have no interest in buying a Paramount but the 40 Caliber caught my eye. At least CVA is trying to think out of the box and offer more performance than the other muzzleloader makers. In the few articles I have come across some say speeds on the 40 caliber can go over 2800fps so that is pretty inpressive and the groups they shot at 500 yards are too. There variflame system is backwards they are still stuck putting the primer into the breech plug by hand with a magnetic tool I guess they have not heard of machining the bolt head for a primer or a module.
So muzzleloader hunters with have a new option for 2021. The vast majority of muzzleloader guys buy the cheapest guns they can and shoot a pack of bullets once a season. Then you have the next group that are looking for something better and might buy a TC or a CVA Accura or a Rem Ulta. or a Knight then when people start getting serios they can get into smokeless with a break action or a barrel nut gun and finally the die hard bunch like us that want a high performance muzzleloader which doesn't come cheap when you factor in all the accessories that go with it.
So its nice to see some progress in the muzzleloader industry. They state a 1-20 twist for the 40caliber thats on the slow side especially for any of Kyles bullets but there only shooting a 225 or 230grain bullet they could probably go up to 250 or maybe a little more which is probably there next step right now their after the most velocity they can get out of it for advertising
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Post by GMB54-120 on Apr 3, 2021 10:16:53 GMT -5
Knight has a 40cal 1-16 that will be available in June or July also. Sofar i can tell you 120grV of BH209 will get a 250gr 40cal moving about 2300fps. That is the data ive seen one of the testers post. ATM im not sure what the max load will be for the new Peregrine from Knight but im pretty sure they have changed over to a LRMP module system also for that rifle. Not variflame though.
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Post by elkman1310 on Apr 3, 2021 16:17:28 GMT -5
The max load of BH209 for both the 40 and 45 in the new HTR is 119grs by weight or 170grs by volume I would think the 40 will generate more pressure than the 45 caliber. Just have to wait na dsee what will really happen once the gun hits the market. I have not looked at the Knight.
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Post by encore50a on Apr 3, 2021 17:23:46 GMT -5
IIRC.............. CVA dropped the maximum charge of BH in the 40cal down to 150grs volume. IIRC there were pressure issues.........
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Post by elkman1310 on Apr 4, 2021 8:50:33 GMT -5
I see that the charge is 150grs by volume on a video they said 170grs. Till the gun gets released and actually tested for a while I think there will be a lot of miss info on this 40 caliber. They do offer a huge claim shell brake which really looks out of place on this rifle IMHO. I like my brakes to be machined perfectly to the contour of the barrel so you can't tell where it actually joins the barrel it doesn't require that much extra machine time when its in the lathe to do that anything else just looks like a add on part.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Apr 4, 2021 8:57:10 GMT -5
Yes they did drop the max. TB tested his prototype and got over 2700fps with the ELR and a 150gr by volume load of BH209. Originally CVA was also going to release a MR-X and LR-X version in 40cal. They dropped that rather quickly even though it was not rated nearly as high.
The new recommended loads of Blackhorn 209 are as follows:
.40 Cal - 150 grains by volume (105 by weight)
.45 Cal - 160 grains by volume (112 by weight)
.50 Cal - 170 grains by volume (119 by weight)
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Post by elkman1310 on Apr 4, 2021 11:36:36 GMT -5
Probably the 45 would be the better option mainly because of bullet selection. and all that depends on how big the bore is. I think they lowered the powder charges mainly because a lot of people won't take the time to weigh them out on a scale you can be off quite a bit going by volume on a volume tube everybody reads those differently by several grains.
So enough said on the CVA time will tell how good it might be when they really get out into the shooting world. I have had several break action CVA guns over the years and they have all shot really well. My CVA 45/70 Scout 2 shoots really well and is a solid build gun for the money. Like I said in a earlier post most people don't spend a lot of money on a muzzleloader so at $1200 bucks that puts this above the Remington 700 ultimate muzzleloader which can be turned into a dual purpose switch barrel gun the CVA is strictly a muzzleloader but it is also a non FFL gun.
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Post by afisher on Apr 4, 2021 12:50:43 GMT -5
www.anarchyoutdoors.com/cva-paramount-full-port-muzzle-brake/This bunch offers a nicer looking brake for them guns. One of my buddies just bought one of these guns in a 45cal and what reading he had done folks were getting better accuracy from the anarchy brake. But I have no experience with one of the paramounts I’ll openly admit.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Apr 4, 2021 15:20:56 GMT -5
Probably the 45 would be the better option mainly because of bullet selection. and all that depends on how big the bore is. I think they lowered the powder charges mainly because a lot of people won't take the time to weigh them out on a scale you can be off quite a bit going by volume on a volume tube everybody reads those differently by several grains. So enough said on the CVA time will tell how good it might be when they really get out into the shooting world. I have had several break action CVA guns over the years and they have all shot really well. My CVA 45/70 Scout 2 shoots really well and is a solid build gun for the money. Like I said in a earlier post most people don't spend a lot of money on a muzzleloader so at $1200 bucks that puts this above the Remington 700 ultimate muzzleloader which can be turned into a dual purpose switch barrel gun the CVA is strictly a muzzleloader but it is also a non FFL gun.
Well in theory the same can be done to a Paramount that has been done to the older MLIIs and Rem700ML. The Paramount has locking lugs and a LRMP module conversion kit is available too. So if someone really wanted to do it they could have a smokeless rated barrel made for a Paramount.
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Post by dennis on Apr 4, 2021 16:16:11 GMT -5
Since this is posted in the smokeless section, it would be much cheaper to build a barrel nut gun from a Sav. or Rem. action if in fact someone wants to go smokeless. I quit smoking quite a while back so this rifle platform, though interesting, is not for me.
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Post by encore50a on Apr 4, 2021 16:37:34 GMT -5
Smokeless rated barrel change on a Paramount............. IIRC those Paramount barrel threads are about as bast..... a MM thread as they could possibly make it.
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Post by jims on Apr 4, 2021 19:51:44 GMT -5
I do not use brakes much but when I do I also like the ones that follow the contour of the barrel. Maybe not as effective as some of the brakes but they look less like a poly choke to me.
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Post by elkman1310 on Apr 4, 2021 21:31:05 GMT -5
I don't know how they get around selling this as a non FFL gun since the bolt has two lugs on it. When I looked into making actions that was considered a FFL requirement if it had any type of lug on the bolt. Arrowhead does sell a bolt head and breech plug conversion I have no idea what the thread pitch is on this action if its made in Italy then it would have a metric pitch which would be doable on any decent lathe.
I find it odd that they don't use their palm saver ramrod and install it right on the barrel I use their palm saver ramrods and all the time and put a spin jag on the bottom I don't like the idea of carry a 3 piece rod around you can easily forget to take it along when you go shooting or hunting. And you get a lot less questions from the Game warden if you get stopped they all think your carrying a high power rifle.
As far as converting one to smokeless that all depends on what you want. If the action is decent and the trigger is a good adjustable trigger and you like the stock and it has a good bedding job from the factory then the cost of converting this muzzleloader might be cheaper than doing a Savage or a Rem ML action. Used Savage muzzleloaders bring crazy prices so you can easily pay more for a old Savage than what this Paramount cost. Nothing is cheap in the bolt action guns the cheapest is a barrel nut for a Rem 700 action for a person that can do the work themselves but you end up with a small shank barrel that limits the performance you can safely get there is always some trade of somewhere.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Apr 4, 2021 23:02:37 GMT -5
Its probably not something i would do but ive seen a guy do a Howa Mini action so anything is possible i suppose. Stocks and triggers on the HTR are supposed to be pretty decent and the Pro version is even nicer.
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Post by elkman1310 on Apr 5, 2021 8:30:27 GMT -5
I didn't take notice that there was a thread started about this gun on the black powder board already maybe we should move this topic over there my mistake for not catching that I don't check that out near enough.
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Post by utahshooter on Oct 7, 2021 14:33:12 GMT -5
Has anyone tried the PowerBelt ELR 40 cal bullets? I thought it would be a faster loading option for hunting so I tried some at the range with terrible results using the suggested BH209 powder charges 130v, 140v and 150v. Could not get any sort of grouping. I was using a TC Encore with a Hankins Brux Barrel 20-1 and HIS ignition system.
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