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Post by bkm on Feb 26, 2021 21:28:10 GMT -5
As u guys know shooting supplies are at an all time difficult to find.
I have been a huge fan of the bullets in yellow boxes for yrs.
Recently while preparing for an ELR match I took particular notice of the meplats on the bullets in yellow boxes. They were very bad.
Normally I trim and point the bullets anyway but this particular lot was so not uniform that excessive trimming was necessary which reduces the bc tremendously and at 1000-2000 yds we try to milk ever last bit of bc we can get.
Anyway, I contacted the customer service dept of the company that makes the bullets in the yellow box. Basically after several back and forth emails they blew me off and said their bullets were fine.
In the meantime I saw some Hornady A tips on line while i was browsing for powder and other shooting supplies and decided I would give them a try. Boy, was I surprised.
These were .338 bullets. I only bought 200 of them. They are not cheap but they measured and weighed remarkably close.
Also they are packaged to where the bullets aren’t dinged up from rattling around on each other.
All 200 bullets were identical base to ogive. (As close as I can measure)
OAL was amazing as well. 153 bullets measured to the thousandth.
47 of them were .002 longer
The weight varied by only a few tenths
These are bullet characteristics long range shooters desire.
I was so impressed that I ordered 500 more in 30 caliber.
Same results after sorting them as the .338
I’m in no way affiliated with the shooting industry and have nothing to gain by posting this. I’m only sharing my experiences.
Neither am I angry with the company that sells bullets in yellow boxes.
I think they make great bullets but if you’re like me and don’t like spending hours sorting them, trying to separate them into similar piles give the A tips a look. They’re worth the extra money imo.
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Post by elkman1310 on Feb 27, 2021 11:16:31 GMT -5
I don't know what your accuracy expectations are for group size if your shooting steel plates at long range the A-tip will work ok If you goal is ultimate accuracy you spent a lot of money for bullets that we have proven will not shoot competitively out of a 6mm Dasher or a 6.5/284 at 1000 yards on paper. In our matches you need a gun that will shoot 10 shots under 5 inches just to win a relay and on a really good day that gun should shoot into the low 3 inch bracket for 10 shoots. Big difference between target shooting and just trying to hit a 24 or 36 inch plate
The bullets do check out extremely well that is the amazing part normally a bullet that checks out that good will shoot small groups at 1000 yards on paper the 6mm bullets were undersize for the bore I contacted Hornady about this issue and they said they make their dies smaller than normal so they can run a million or more bullets through them so as they wear they come up to a more normal diameter that really sucks same goes for the 6.5 bullets. I could not get the vertical out of the 110gr A-tip 6mm and the 6.5 bullet was don right ugly at 1,000 yards. Externally they look great internally they have problems
I hope they work for you but I can tell you of the 100 plus shooters we have at our 1,000 yard benchrest matches here in Pa. ( Nobody shoots a Hornady bullet ) The break down for 6mm is Vapor Trail custom hand made bullets then JLK and Bart's Hand made bullets then Berger and Sierra's production bullets The new world record heavy gun group shot in Arizona was shot with a 300wsm and the new Berger 220gr Hybrid 2.8 inch and a perfect score of 100 with a 10x's
The best long range bullet for the 338 is still the old football designed Sierra 300gr MK it doesn't have the highest BC but it is the easiest to make shoot and it has been a very good killing bullet for us for well over 25 years. Super high BC don't mean squat if you can't hold vertical at long distances the A-Tip is been a big disappointment to say the least.
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Post by bkm on Mar 1, 2021 13:05:31 GMT -5
U are comparing apples to oranges. The A tips u and ur friends tested in the
6 mm may not have shot as well as the custom bullets u are comparing them to.
One could hardly expect them to.
As u well know, we don’t have quite the selection of good bullets to choose from in the larger calibers.
The results I posted are intended to help anyone that might have a similar interest in elr that I do. I’m not interested in simply banging steel at long range but in producing the smallest groups possible and being able to shoot those groups as close to the center of the 10 ring as possible.
Well made consistent bullets are as important to accomplishing that in elr as they are in the 1000 yd bench rest.
I have tested the Bergers and SMK’s along with some solids and the A tips are producing the smallest groups I’ve been able to shoot.
Believe me, I understand the skepticism. I haven’t been a big fan of Hornady target bullets either, but let the results speak for themselves.
Don’t be so quick to judge the 300 gr .338 A tip to the 6 mm’ s.
Give them a try. They’re actually one of the few bullets that u might be able to find in stock right now.
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Post by elkman1310 on Mar 2, 2021 8:24:21 GMT -5
Thanks but no thanks I have tried more wonder bullets over the last 35 years then most people and the vast majority have not lived up to their hype. Cutting Edge Bullets measure out extremely close and so do Warner Flatline bullets they are both machined bullets super consistent and neither one will shoot or group anywhere close to a lead core copper jacket bullet.
You didn't mention what weight bullet you bought for the 30 caliber. If you bought the 250 gr you will need a very fast twist to run them. the faster the twist rate for a 30 caliber the bigger the groups will be all the 300wsm that we run either use a 1-11 or 1-10 twist I have had barrels down to 1-8 twist in a 30 caliber and they never grouped as well as a 1-10 would.
There is really good reason why all the top shooters in the country have gone to the 6mm bullet for benchrest competition bullet quality. the larger the bullet and jacket become and the longer the jacket becomes the less accurate it becomes it a simple rule to follow. They do make longer and heavier bullets for the 6mm than 110gr but once you get above 108grs you need to go to a 1-7 twist to stabilize them and that doesn't work nobody wins matches with 110gr or 115gr bullets in benchrest matches the quality of the bullet is not there. Nobody is shooting 1,000 yard benchrest using a .338 caliber rifle of any kind. At one time we did and that only lasted a year or two and that was for one simple reason you couldn't win. The 300 caliber guns would beat it just about every time. and when the 6mm came along especially the 6mm Dasher the 30 caliber guns all but disappeared. The draw back for the 6mm is that it is not a ELR caliber. Every caliber and cartridge has its limitations
I hope that you find success with the A-Tip bullets but I am willing to bet the 300gr SMK will out shoot them by a good margin in most guns when it comes to group and score at 1,000 yards and beyond. I have shot the 300gr SMK out to 2500 yards in Colorado long before ELR was ever thought of and they have always performed really well like I said you have to be able to hold a very tight vertical in your group we have not seen the Berger's match the Sierra's when it comes to that. the Berger's might shoot one click flatter which means nothing.
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Post by dennis on Mar 2, 2021 13:05:03 GMT -5
300gr
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Post by bkm on Mar 4, 2021 22:16:26 GMT -5
The 30 caliber A tips are 230’s.
I’ll shoot them out of a 1/10 twist.
Haven’t shot any of them yet. Miller stability should be around 1.3
with that twist rate.
The 338 A tips are 300 gr and proving to shoot quite well.
I’ve shot a few 1/2 minute, 3 shot groups at 1600 yds which is as far as i can shoot off concrete benches at my range, with my best group slightly under 5”.
As I said previously the 300 gr Bergers shoot well also but require a lot of time in bullet prep.
I haven’t had very good luck with the 300 gr SMK’s.
As u stated bc isn’t everything and I don’t mind dialing in a couple more minutes of elevation but the wind affects the match kings far more than the A tips or the Bergers when u get to extreme ranges. I need all the help I can get. My wind reading skills are the weak link in my shooting.
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