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Post by fourwheeler10 on Aug 28, 2020 12:01:47 GMT -5
I had a 700 Remington muzzleloader converted to a smokeless muzzleloader about six years ago for my Dad. My Dad has passed away since then and I would like to try to use this muzzleloader for myself. It was built by a very good gunsmith from Doug's boards. It has a pacnor barrel, jewel trigger, and a 700ml lrmp module bolt nose kit. It also has a Leupold vxr 4 12x40 scope with a very nice thumb hole stock. Like I said it was built for my Dad to shoot light loads. I set it up for him shooting 195 grain Barnes with light blue harvester sabots, with 35 grains of v110. A very light load. He loved the gun and shot it very well out to 100 yards. I would like to stretch the yardage out to around 250 yards. I was told that it could not be shot sabot less because of the contour of the barrel. What I need to know from you guys on this board is if it can't be shot sabot less what bullet, sabot, powder combo can I use to do this. I have v110. reloader 7, imr 4198 powders. This will be for hunting only. Sorry for being so long winded but I need some help please. Thanks in advance.
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Post by dannoboone on Aug 28, 2020 12:27:03 GMT -5
It would help to know just what the contour is in order to give you
an answer. How far ahead of the action is it 1.250" before tapering
down to the muzzle and what OD is it at the muzzle?
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Post by fourwheeler10 on Aug 28, 2020 13:48:06 GMT -5
I'm very sorry it is a 45. I'm not very smart when it comes to this gun but I don't know what you mean when talking about how far ahead of the action it is before tapering down to the muzzle. How do I or can I measure this sorry again for being so dumb. Thanks
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Post by outdoors81 on Aug 28, 2020 17:07:36 GMT -5
Can you talk to the person that built it?
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Post by SURESHOT on Aug 28, 2020 17:10:46 GMT -5
they are looking for the Outside DIA. of the Barrel next to the action and how long it runs from there out to where it first STARTS tapering down they are looking for this its called a shank could be 3,4,5 inches and then the OD at the muzzle hopefully this helps just went to the PACNOR web page go to BARREL CONTOUR and they are looking for the D and A measurment
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Post by lindauer1 on Aug 28, 2020 18:41:06 GMT -5
www.bruxbarrels.com/contours.htmlI know you have a pacnor and they are great barrels as well. Follow the link so you can see how barrels are measured. The "gurus" want the measurement by the receiver and how long it last before it starts to taper to the muzzle. I hope the photos help you get the answers you are looking for. Sorry about your old man. They sure are special.
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Post by Richard on Aug 28, 2020 19:05:50 GMT -5
Barrel dimensions will help in determining what type of load s can be shot safely!
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Post by fourwheeler10 on Sept 3, 2020 15:57:25 GMT -5
It took me some time to get in touch with the builder of this gun. He told me that it is a Pacnor barrel with a sendero contour. He also told me not to shoot it sabotless. This gun will just be used for hunting. If you guys could help me with a sabot, powder, bullet combo to shoot out to 200 yds. I would be very happy, also would it be possible to install another barrel on this gun to shoot sabotless.
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Post by Hank on Sept 3, 2020 19:25:01 GMT -5
If the action you have is an older muzzle loader action, you would be much better off in the long run to just leave it as is and build yourself a rifle using an action with locking lugs. IMO.
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Post by buckdoehunter on Sept 4, 2020 7:04:03 GMT -5
I would ask your builder about these loads just to make sure. I have a Pac-Nor barrel on my daughter's muzzleloader and these are safe loads in her rifle but that barrel is a modified sendero.
Use your same bullet and sabot, 57-60 grains of IMR4198, 60-63 grains of Reloder 7. If the Barnes 195 does't shoot well, you could try a 200 grain SST. Pittman and Fury also offer some 40 cal. bullets that may work well.
Looks like the barrels available for the older 700ML are drying up, the last ones I saw were pre-fits with barrel nuts but those aren't being sold anymore either. I heard rumors McGowen was selling some but I didn't see any on their website.
For the hunting distance you mentioned, a converted 45-70 break action, shooting sabotless, would work well.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Sept 4, 2020 8:57:33 GMT -5
It took me some time to get in touch with the builder of this gun. He told me that it is a Pacnor barrel with a sendero contour. He also told me not to shoot it sabotless. This gun will just be used for hunting. If you guys could help me with a sabot, powder, bullet combo to shoot out to 200 yds. I would be very happy, also would it be possible to install another barrel on this gun to shoot sabotless.
These loads should all be fine with upto a 225gr bullet in sabot.
60-63gr Reloder7 58-60gr of N120....58gr is actually pretty fast too. 56-60gr of 4198 but im not totally thrilled with 4198 for sabots until you get into the 225gr to 250gr 40cals. Its ok but i would like to see a tad more peak pressure.
58gr of N120 and a 200gr sst is plenty for a 200 yard shot. More than plenty really. If you want a better bullet i would look into the 225gr Fury or even the 250gr. They are short enough for the Pacnor's 1-22 twist and a good choice if you would rather use 4198. A Pittman 225gr should also work just fine if you need/want a better BC than the Fury.
None of these loads should break 35kpsi with a 200gr bullet in a sabot. N120 will be the highest at almost 35kpsi shooting a 60gr load. Re7 will be the lowest but its double based. Its also rather dirty.
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Post by fourwheeler10 on Sept 4, 2020 12:28:34 GMT -5
I'm discouraged now. I have a savage model ml 2 50 cal. with stainless steel barrel and laminated thumb hole stock and now this gun that I put a lot of money in and I still can't shoot either one sabotless. What would be the cheapest way for me to go to get to shoot sabotless (gun wise). Money is a problem now that I'm retired and on government funds. Thanks guys for all the help.
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Post by smokelessk on Sept 4, 2020 12:57:40 GMT -5
I'm discouraged now. I have a savage model ml 2 50 cal. with stainless steel barrel and laminated thumb hole stock and now this gun that I put a lot of money in and I still can't shoot either one sabotless. What would be the cheapest way for me to go to get to shoot sabotless (gun wise). Money is a problem now that I'm retired and on government funds. Thanks guys for all the help. You might be able to easily get $1,000 for your savage ML2. It has been like 3 years since I sold mine on GunBroker. It was only blued/black synthetic. The stainless always bring a higher price. I got $840 for mine. Don't know what the going rate is currently for them. The Rem 700 you are talking about. Is it a 700 Ultimate that was converted? |
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Post by GMB54-120 on Sept 5, 2020 9:45:37 GMT -5
Why cant this one shoot sabotless? Even a small shank MLII barrel is larger than a Scout conversion. Not much larger but it is slightly. Ive shot my small shank sabotless. Just keep loads at a similar level as Scout/Hunter/RemAge loads.
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Post by fourwheeler10 on Sept 5, 2020 13:25:08 GMT -5
GMB54-120, are you talking about my Savage ML11. Can it be shot sabotless with the standard savage breach plug. If so any info you could give me would be highly appreciated. Bullet, powder, loads. and anything else that I may need to know. Thanks very much.
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Post by hillbill on Sept 5, 2020 20:00:59 GMT -5
your 700 can be shot sabotless IF the shank is long enough.
I know it's a sendero contour but we need to know how far the fat part of the barrel extends past the recoil lug before it starts to taper down, also what breech plug, 9/16, 5/8 or Savage 11/16?
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Post by buckdoehunter on Sept 6, 2020 16:07:09 GMT -5
Was the barrel from ASG? I bought my Pac-Nor barrel around 3 or so years ago. I went with the modified sendero because I was told it only weighed 4 oz more than the sendero contour. For reference, 2.75 inches past the lug, barrel dia. of 1.2 inches  |
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Post by fourwheeler10 on Sept 6, 2020 16:30:06 GMT -5
I went to visit a gun smith friend of mine, and had him measure my 700 for me. He explained to me what info you guys where asking me for. The breach plug measures 9/16" and the fat part of the barrel extends 2 1/2" past the recoil lug before it starts to taper down. I hope this helps, Thanks hillbill.
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Post by hillbill on Sept 6, 2020 19:39:30 GMT -5
I would not use anything heavier than a 275 and would not go above 60 grains of 4198, you might need to use a wad but just try and see how it shoots best.
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Post by fourwheeler10 on Sept 7, 2020 8:36:26 GMT -5
hillbill, are you saying it could be shot sabotless with this load. Just double checking. I don't want to go out and shoot a load that may get me in trouble because of misunderstanding on my part. If so could I try starting at 56 grains imr4198 and a pittman 275 grain. Would this bullet have to be sized. Thanks very much.
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