|
|
Post by Richard on May 19, 2020 17:51:43 GMT -5
Some rimfire testing…. Took a break from the muzzle loader these past two weeks and played with my “somewhat” modified Ruger 10-22. Our club ran an informal IBS 50/50 .22 rimfire 50 yard match. We shot factory and modified classes. Due to the barrel change I wind up in the class with three of the competitors that have full out 40X rimfire rifles complete with tuners and high dollar scopes shooting Eley Tennex and some Lapua high dollar ammo! Two of the guys actually compete at other ranges that shoot registered matches, so they are serious shooters…..they also compete in my 600 yard IBS CF matches. My point here is that these guys are excellent shooters with very good equipment. I enjoy competing against them just to see how good my little 10-22 can do! My 10-22 was bought used over 25 years ago………the cheapie with the birch wood stock and barrel band. Over the years I modified my stock into a Benchrest type stock (much like my Black Corona upgrade). It had a nice paint job and looked and shot real well…….it did however, not fit my hand right. Anyway, along the way, I put on a fluted Green Mountain barrel………..more recently installed a Ruger BX trigger and then, this past year put it in a Boyds Evolution thumb hole stock. (16X Weaver fine crosshair scope) My ammo for the match was $5.00/box Wolf target match. So, the winner of the match in my modified class shot a 248-7X and I wound up fourth shooting a 245-8X. So yeah, the other two shooters kind of snuck in between me and first place! Here is the thing, I know my rifle shoots real well, but it depends on the ammunition and how much you want to spend to win? This is a club match – not a registered one----just for fun! But, you can do well if you do your home work in testing ammunition… and that is what I am illustrating here. Herman, on our forum, also likes to play with these .22’s and in fact, just got a new CZ bolt gun that shoots real well………with, the right ammo. He has been buying many, many different boxes of ammo in the “affordable range”. We had gotten some initial decent results with S&K target rifle ammo (red and black box). I had also gotten a brick of Wolf target “ Xtra” that I had not tried prior to the match. I had been shooting the Wolf match target (cheaper than the Xtra). I had also ordered a brick of the S&K but did not test it prior to the match either, so this week my intention was to mainly test the Wolf match target, Wolf match Xtra and S&K. Below you will see my typical data sheet. There were a couple of initial groups with S&K Pistol match of which I had bought a brick but found it did not shoot well from my rifle. ALL groups were ten shots. A few had some good 9 shots and a flyer? I counted all ten for this test. You can see the Velocity, ES and Group size for each so shots. There are five ten shot groups for each box of ammo; then I figured the average of all five groups. The Wolf ammo in both the Match and XTRA came in exactly the same in velocity (1078 fps) The average ES for the Match was smaller than the more expensive ($1/box) match XTRA. The average group size for the Match was also smaller than the Xtra (.618” vs. .776”) Go figure? So now, look at the S&K Rifle Match! It’s average velocity was 1035.8 fps with an average ES of 39 fps and a average group size of .506”. This ammo runs just about the same as the Wolf Xtra. The interesting part of this testing was the fact I had the LabRadar going the whole time and Herman, for the most part, was watching thru the spotting scope when I fired each shot and also noting the velocity on the LR. “Almost” every time a shot was either slower or faster than the “average”, it resulted in being out of the group. The consensus was, that ES is extremely important in .22 rimfire for optimum accuracy. While these various .22’s may not shoot as good in a different rifle, at least I know this lot of S&K has a low (for .22 rimfire ammo) ES which can’t hurt. If you look at the S&K pistol ammo, the ES for two ten shot groups? 93 fps! A previous brick of that same S&K pistol match ammo from ten years ago, shot like a house on fire out of this same rifle. Another thing, when testing .22 ammo, I found that when switching brands or lots, that a ten shot group, at least, should be fired prior to the actual test. These bullets all have different powder, primers, wax/lube on the bullet that needs to be shot to condition the bore for the new group. Anyway, I just thought this test might be of interest to those casual rimfire shooters/plinkers. BTW, the conditions were excellent for the entire testing.   |
|
|
|
Post by hillbill on May 19, 2020 19:05:37 GMT -5
Interesting Richard
Especially for me as I also play with .22s on Friday nights with some local shooters. We shoot from a barn @ 30 yds 1 shot cold bore, everyone shoots from the same bags from an opening inside the barn, targets are outside,we use lights when needed, we shoot for the x and it gets very competitive.
I also shoot a modded 10-22 with a Green River barrel (threaded into the receiver), a Titan stock and a Kidd trigger, I shoot RWS Match Extra. The little gun shoots very well,( I win a bit).
there are several Anschutz, CZs with Lilja barrels, a 40x or two, win 52s etc. these guys take it serious but it's a really laid back atmosphere, lots of fun for all that compete.
It's amazing how much money guys are willing to spend to win a 50.00 pot. I have one friend that dropped a wad on a custom shop Anchutz, another that just spent a wad on a Voo-Doo, I have to say that is the most impressive rimfire platform I have ever handled. I look forward to seeing it shoot Friday night.
We have not shot in several weeks but that will end Friday.
Your groups are pretty good from a 10-22 Richard @ 50 yds, not bad at all.
One thing I have learned about .22s, the right ammo means everything!
|
|
|
|
Post by Richard on May 19, 2020 20:42:03 GMT -5
Bill...have you ever chronographed that RWS ammo? And if so, what velocity is it going and what is the ES?
|
|
|
|
Post by hillbill on May 20, 2020 4:40:07 GMT -5
I have not Richard but I will soon as I get time and get back to you.
My friend that bought the custom shop Annie also bought a bunch of different lots of Match extra and RWS 50, I had the luxury of finding a lot of the extra that shoots really well out of my gun.
the .22 game could get addicting quickly, many think it is cheap to play, not so I am finding out, 10.00+ per box ammo and you must practice to be competitive.
One thing for sure I look forward to Friday nights now, will see If I can be competitive against my friends new VOO DOO.
These guys just can't figure out how I can win with a 10-22? not that I win all the time but I,m always in the mix, it keeps them on their toes.
when they started holding these matches guys were shooting everything you could think of, the avg .22 that got passed down from Gramps soon fell to the wayside, If it's not a good shooter now with good ammo one makes regular donations to the pot.
I will get some speeds soon and let you know what the avg and es are.
|
|
|
|
Post by deadeye on May 20, 2020 7:40:53 GMT -5
not that you fellas need the help but you may want to try this> www.midwayusa.com/product/1392379205lot of good info in your thread...……….. and I also learned in 22 lr to shoot total free recoil(keep your shoulder off the stock),my grandson age 10 recently turned in a 9 shot grp @ 100yds @ .6///10@ 1.1 -- he turned a 2nd 10 shot @ 1.6" right after the 1st grp I then turned him loose w/ 6br to kill some milk jugs out to 258yds in some windy conditions. another trick that sometimes works I learned from a 2 state 22lr champ was wiping the bullets off lightly with a cloth,sometimes grps get better sometimes not. Richard is correct when changing ammo types it usually takes 2-4 shots for the barrel to set -in on the new 22lr ammo. the old 10-22 shoot great as they usually had better barrels. have fun! enjoy the thread! de |
|
|
|
Post by Richard on May 20, 2020 8:10:13 GMT -5
Jeff...was he using that Eley sub-sonic?
Herman shot a 5 shot group at 100 with that Red box S&K that looked to be around 1/2" with his CZ.
The problem here is, this game, just like with the muzzleloaders, starts to get addicting. First your satisfied and happy shooting 1-inch groups at 50 yards. Then, someone comes up with another ammunition to try and you find that it will shoot close to 3/4 of an inch? So you go and buy a couple boxes and are happy with it until again someone else finds or tells you that such and such ammo is good. So, you get some of it and next thing you know you're spending over $10 a box just to have fun. other than these informal matches we have every month or maybe two, I don't travel to compete? I am afraid that if I start buying $16 a box Eley 10X, that I might get addicted and not be satisfied with $7 a box S&K?
we used to be happy shooting three or four inch groups at 300 yd with our savage ML2's....now, if it's not under 1 in it's time to sell the rifle. Or, find new bullet?...Or, better powder? And on and on!
|
|
|
|
Post by deadeye on May 20, 2020 8:52:40 GMT -5
Jeff...was he using that Eley sub-sonic? Herman shot a 5 shot group at 100 with that Red box S&K that looked to be around 1/2" with his CZ. The problem here is, this game, just like with the muzzleloaders, starts to get addicting. First your satisfied and happy shooting 1-inch groups at 50 yards. Then, someone comes up with another ammunition to try and you find that it will shoot close to 3/4 of an inch? So you go and buy a couple boxes and are happy with it until again someone else finds or tells you that such and such ammo is good. So, you get some of it and next thing you know you're spending over $10 a box just to have fun. other than these informal matches we have every month or maybe two, I don't travel to compete? I am afraid that if I start buying $16 a box Eley 10X, that I might get addicted and not be satisfied with $7 a box S&K? we used to be happy shooting three or four inch groups at 300 yd with our savage ML2's....now, if it's not under 1 in it's time to sell the rifle. Or, find new bullet?...Or, better powder? And on and on! the gun he is using is my old Winchester mod 75 Sporter w/win 333 pack,this gun did not get excited on eley. it likes this old box win 333pack I have had for yrs,about to run out hopefully the new will shoot as good as the old. I have found the win 333 pack & blazer shoot very well in almost all the 22's I have tried. these 2 will not kill the wallet. www.huntinggearguy.com/rimfire/winchester-333-bulk-pack-review/www.targetsportsusa.com/cci-blazer-22-lr-ammo-40-grain-lrn-value-pack-10021-p-1453.aspxI used the eley subsonic in a .22 cz that I borrowed from a doctor to compete@ 75yds back a few yrs ago,the eley sub has worked in quite a few guns but I reserve it for comp only. it is amazing how much $ one could throw @ .22lr as I have accumulated a lot of various eley,some eley brands didn't do worth a hoot. never did get my hands on some Midas but will sometime in the future. Wolf Match also performed very well but Eley Sub seemed to edge out the others in multiple agg groups,but there are some guns that did not respond to it anything special. if I can remember I will throw a box on the truck for you @ next KY challenge-no charge! thx! jeff |
|
|
|
Post by Richard on May 20, 2020 9:38:52 GMT -5
Thanks for your response and offer Jeff! I see Lapua has some "X-act" ammo at $24/box of 50?  ? Holy S&%t! I know our muzzle loaders are expensive, to build a good one, and top of the line bullets are very expensive but.....we seem to get "more bang for the buck" since it takes a while to shoot them  .............I could burn up a box of those X-act's in under 1/2 an hour with my 10-22? "Different strokes!" |
|
|
|
Post by joelmoney on May 21, 2020 23:48:46 GMT -5
I found a Lot of Winchester Power Point that shot lights out at 100 yards in my purpose built 10/22 in the mid 90’s bout Scheels out couple thousand rounds tried a few other lots nothing came close I have never shot a better ammo in that gun. We used to shoot 100 yards and it is amazing how far a 40mph wind can move that bullet. It was more on making wind calls than gun accuracy. Three of us used to meet up once a month. Some of the most fun shooting I have ever done and back then it was cheap. We used to shoot 1” washers a lot. Those are fun targets.
He tests all the ammo at 50, 75 and 100 yards.
|
|
|
|
Post by Richard on May 22, 2020 17:37:54 GMT -5
Don't know if anyone has seen these tests done by Saeed on the Accurate Shooter website? www.accurateshooter.com/guns-of-week/22lr-rimfire-ammo-comparison-test/ Saeed has been around for a long time and is a very dedicated tester of all types of rifles and ammunition. He has an underground test area and top shelf equipment. Granted the rifle used is a quality piece and the fact it is indoors, has a lot to do with the accuracy............but that being said, there are plenty of results that one can sink their teeth into! This is all medium to high price ammo. He tests all the ammo at 50, 75 and 100 yards! |
|
|
|
Post by deadeye on May 23, 2020 8:58:40 GMT -5
saw this in the past & some serious cash spent there.
of the approx. 20 I tried I had the best luck with eley tenex ultimate eps,eley pistol match,eley sub hp,western value pack,federal 900a & some unknown brand I bought in local gun shop & that about broke me.(not in order depending on the gun)
as I scanned my collection & looked at the price's I paid back then---was glad to see my western value pack doing well!
but I have been eyeing those Turbo's & some gent that builds comp .22lr w/ tuners in Illinois for around $2500 on Accurate Shooter.
|
|
|
|
Post by Richard on May 23, 2020 12:22:41 GMT -5
Unfortunately Jeff, I can't justify spending that kind of cash for the casual shooting I do at our club. I am to the age where I need to liquidate toys, not buy more. While my family is not anti-gun, they just have no interest in them. I hate to burden them with having to get rid of them when I "kick the bucket!"
|
|
|
|
Post by Richard on May 27, 2020 21:00:10 GMT -5
So, just doing a little more testing this past Tuesday with the S&K Rifle match bullets. BTW, these run $70.00/brick from the Ammunition Store: ammunitionstore.com/categories/rimfire-ammunition.html. My results were so good last week that I decided to confirm those results with additional shooting. Again, at fifty yards and all TEN shot groups. Our fellow member here, Herman, also had gotten good results with these bullets and decided to order two bricks for himself and I also got two bricks. They were also obtained from the Ammunition store but from a different lot # than my previous brick......so, I wanted to see if there was any difference in accuracy and velocity.........basically, there was not a significant difference. Also this week I added a Picatinny rail onto my 10-22 since I had, had problems with the original mounts and "tip-off" rings. After getting the rifle back on target since the rail change, my first group with the older lot was not shot with the chronograph (LabRadar) on. But did shoot three more. The velocity average for those (3) groups was 1031 fps with a 34 fps ES. The average group size for all four groups was .473" with the smallest group being .296". Last week, the same lot of ammo averaged 1035.8 fps with a 39 fps ES and a average group size for five groups of .506" Switching to the newer lot of ammo I shot I shot seven groups. Group #10 only had 9 shots so I did not include that .497" group. Of the six groups, their average velocity was 1042 fps with an average ES of 33 fps. The average group size was .504" (.002 smaller than last week) with a smallest group of .348". I then averaged all nine, 10 shot groups for an average velocity of 1037 fps with an average ES of 37 fps and an average group size of .482" With another IBS 50/50 club match coming up this weekend, I hope to improve my scores as compared to the last match shot with the Wolf Match Target. What I am seeing with this S&K Rifle Match ammo is less flyers..........and, those flyers are not that far out. If I was able to count only my best nine shot groups, I venture to say the average would be closer to high .3 to low .4" groups. I know this ammo is not on a par with some of the premier .22 rimfire stuff out there but at better than half the price, its a winner for me. I think next week I will play shooting some five shot groups to get a better idea on comparison with Saeed's internet results. 
 |
|
|
|
Post by Richard on May 31, 2020 20:00:26 GMT -5
BTW.............Saturday we had another IBS 50/50 rimfire match at our club and again, had four competitors using all out rimfire benchrest rifles shooting $20/box Eley and Lapua ammo and my little Ruger 10-22 with a Green River barrel, Ruger BX trigger in Boyd's $129 Baracuda stock with Weaver 16X scope, took them to the cleaners. My first target had 248-7X and the second one had 247-14X. My 19th bull had the shot go straight up in the seven ring? All 24 other bulls were in the ten ring. I was using the S&K Rifle Match ammunition at $7.00 a box. The closet competitor had a 247-12X.
This just proves that its not always the guy who spends the most money on equipment that wins.
|
|
|
|
Post by jims on May 31, 2020 20:41:28 GMT -5
No matter the equipment, someone still has to squeeze the trigger. Even though your equipment/bullets may have cost less the trigger puller was superior.
|
|
|
|
Post by deadeye on May 31, 2020 21:43:23 GMT -5
BTW.............Saturday we had another IBS 50/50 rimfire match at our club and again, had four competitors using all out rimfire benchrest rifles shooting $20/box Eley and Lapua ammo and my little Ruger 10-22 with a Green River barrel, Ruger BX trigger in Boyd's $129 Baracuda stock with Weaver 16X scope, took them to the cleaners. My first target had 248-7X and the second one had 247-14X. My 19th bull had the shot go straight up in the seven ring? All 24 other bulls were in the ten ring. I was using the S&K Rifle Match ammunition at $7.00 a box. The closet competitor had a 247-12X. This just proves that its not always the guy who spends the most money on equipment that wins. Richard-congrats! |
|
|
|
Post by buckeye68 on May 31, 2020 22:24:22 GMT -5
Nice shooting!
|
|
|
|
Post by hillbill on Jun 1, 2020 4:05:50 GMT -5
congrats Richard!
I shot a little last weekend with my friend and his new VooDoo, I took along my Brother in Law's Annie and my 10-22, also took my Lab Radar.
our speeds with several different ammo's averaged from 1080s -1130s. we shot several different Lapua Ammo's, Federal match, RWS, SK and Eley.
While my 10-22 shoots well it's not quite in the league of the Annie and VooDoo shooting groups but the game we play is one shot cold bore at the X when we do our informal matches so I can still hang most of the time.
And yes the trigger Actuator makes a big difference, you know how to pull the trigger obviously.
|
|
|
|
Post by Richard on Jun 1, 2020 6:22:54 GMT -5
I assume the Annie is the Anshutz but not familiar with the VooDoo? Sounds like your speeds are marginal sub/super velocity. What did the ES's look like? It seems like shot to shot velocity is critical with this lower velocity fodder.
I give a lot of credit to my very stable rest and the fact I can move quickly from bull to bull. On my second target (after having made one click adjustment) I only shot one sighter (pinwheeled that bull) then proceeded to shoot the following 25 shots as fast as possible. I was able to pick a favorable wind condition (had one wind/flag/mill out at 25 yards) and run a 10 shot mag while the tail and Daisy wheel were not moving. (Only have two mags) Did have to partial reload one mag. I probably shot the 30 minute match in less than ten minutes. Occasional pauses if I saw movement with the flag.
|
|
|
|
Post by hillbill on Jun 1, 2020 6:53:43 GMT -5
all ammo fired was match ammo but no subsonic, es on some was very good, others not as good. I didn't keep records as we were just having fun.
The VooDoo is a 700 footprint clone with a unique mag set up, it's a very nice action for rimfire and shoots very well.
The Anschutz is a heavy barrel sporting version, I dont remember the model but it is a shooter.
|
|
? Holy S&%t!
.............I could burn up a box of those X-act's in under 1/2 an hour with my 10-22?
