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+P THROAT
Jan 29, 2020 22:56:54 GMT -5
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Post by bkm on Jan 29, 2020 22:56:54 GMT -5
Any of u guys have any experience with Shawn Carlocks chambering that he refers to as +P ? He now offers it for ur bbl instead of just the rifles he builds. Basically supposed to lower peak chamber pressure so u can increase the powder charge and gain velocity. Just curious if anyone on this forum has tried it and the results if u have. Thanks in advance for any info.
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Post by Hank on Jan 30, 2020 7:27:15 GMT -5
Sounds like he is adding some free bore in the throat area. This will lower pressures a little and give slightly faster velocity, but you will not be able to touch the lands in the barrel if you want to hand load your own ammo. Weatherby chambers are made this way so they can get that extra 100 FPS from there magnum rounds.
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Post by elkman1310 on Jan 31, 2020 16:23:48 GMT -5
The P throat is basically a bore rider throat or you can say a extended throat. The Edge I built has a long throat I only single shot the rifle. The COAL is over 4.100 inches it puts the 300gr bullet in the right location in the neck and also lets you load to the full potential of the round. I can safely shoot 106grs of RL33 and a 300gr bullet. It gives me excellent accuracy and a velocity of 3085fps. From a 31 inch barrel.
You simply cannot load 106grs of RL33 in the case and seat a 300 gr bullet or even a 250 gr.bullet to run through any mag. I wish people would understand that long range hunting is about accuracy and the highest velocity you can get out of a given round. Accuracy will always trump velocity but when you start talking about kill animals at long range you need all you can get and with the biggest bullet you can hit them with. A single shot action is in no ways a handicap.
I have shot the 338 Edge enough to say its a really good cartridge way cheaper to shoot then any 338 Lapua and a lot faster. If you want a long range rifle that can be built on a standard 700 long action the Edge is the way to go.
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+P THROAT
Feb 10, 2020 18:51:51 GMT -5
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Post by bkm on Feb 10, 2020 18:51:51 GMT -5
Shipped my bbl to Shawn Carlock at Defensive Edge in Rathdrum ID on 2/3/20 to cut the plus P. Got it back today 2/10/20. I don’t know how the chambering will work out but the service was excellent and fast. I like doing business with people like that. Will keep u posted on the bbl performance.
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Post by elkman1310 on Feb 10, 2020 20:50:08 GMT -5
I hope you understand unless you seat your bullets out far enough to get more powder in the case the P throat won't do much for you. There is no magic in the P throat. Set your gun up to shoot single shot so you can seat the bullet out far enough to get a couple more grains of powder in the case. How long is your barrel?
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+P THROAT
Feb 10, 2020 21:43:18 GMT -5
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Post by bkm on Feb 10, 2020 21:43:18 GMT -5
Yes Sir. Been shooting the Edge for several yrs. This is my third bbl. It is a 30” hvy varmint Bartlein. I’ve always seated long and single shot it.
Only hunt with a 338 occasionally. For hunting inside 500 yds I generally use my smokeless mzl. If i need more fire power I’ll carry a 300 RUM.
The 338 is primarily for steel from 1000-2000. I generally load 300 Bergers in front of H-1000. Never been a fan of the Alliant powders. H-1000 is the least temp sensitive and single base powders are much more throat friendly than double base powders.
I’m hoping to gain 100 fps with the +P and still shoot H-1000. Just an experiment. I’ll post the results.
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Post by elkman1310 on Feb 11, 2020 8:35:16 GMT -5
Hope it works. I tried H1000 couldn't get above 2900 without pressure problems or short case life. Went to RL33 and have never looked back. 3000fps is doable with a 30 inch barrel.
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+P THROAT
Feb 11, 2020 18:00:40 GMT -5
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Post by bkm on Feb 11, 2020 18:00:40 GMT -5
H-1000 is definitely not the fastest powder for the 338 Edge. It’s advantages outweighs everything else I know of though. That’s why the P throat was so attractive. I’d like to have that extra 100 fps.
I did get really good velocity and small extreme spreads with N570 but bbl life is so short that I elected to go back to H-1000.
If ur having to dial 50-60 MOA I guess it’s not that important anyway. It sure is fun though.
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Post by dennis on Feb 11, 2020 19:15:39 GMT -5
Have either of you tried 7977 or Retumbo?
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+P THROAT
Feb 11, 2020 21:21:01 GMT -5
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Post by bkm on Feb 11, 2020 21:21:01 GMT -5
Have either of you tried 7977 or Retumbo? I’ve never tried 7977 Dennis. I did give Retumbo a try in a 300 RUM. I couldn’t get my extreme spread low enough to satisfy me. To be honest I think I tried it with 165’s or 168’s. Probably not the best choice of bullets for that powder. I may have to revisit it with heavier bullets. I know some use it with good results.
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Post by dennis on Feb 11, 2020 22:20:04 GMT -5
I ran 7977 in a 7mm mag when I had it and it was comparable to H1000. H1000 was my best powder with 140-160gr though. I was curious if it would do better with heavier bullets. Retumbo did ok with 160 but not 140 leading me to believe a heavier bullet would benefit from it as well. I was just curious.
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Post by elkman1310 on Feb 12, 2020 8:52:12 GMT -5
When I tested WC872 powder in my Edge I got crazy load extreme numbers the velocity was not quite as high as RL33 but it shot very good groups on paper at 1,000 yards. WC872 is not a temp stable powder it really works best in cold weather because it was designed for that purpose. About 110grs is all you can get into a Norma case. It also burns clean once you start building some pressure same as RL 33 you have to come up on the pressure curve to make it work.
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+P THROAT
Feb 18, 2020 21:08:12 GMT -5
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Post by bkm on Feb 18, 2020 21:08:12 GMT -5
Got to play with +P 338 Edge bbl a little today. Set the Lab Radar up while shooting a few shots during bbl break in. I have two barrels chambered with the same reamer. Only difference in the two is the +P throating in the second bbl.
Max velocity in bbl # 1 with H1000 and 300 gr SMK is 2800. Since the +P lowers chamber pressure I began with a modest load of H1000 and the 300 SMK.
Shot # 1 in a brand new bbl was 2760. I increased each shot afterwards by one grain increments, cleaning between each shot.
I am up to a velocity of 2950 now with no pressure signs and a two finger bolt lift. If this bbl is like all the others I’ve had it will speed up after 50 or so rds. That should put me near 3000 fps.
I know it’s early but the preliminary results look very promising. I’ll post more as things progress.
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Post by elkman1310 on Feb 20, 2020 15:12:49 GMT -5
That's a good start. 3,000 fps is a doable number without hurting your brass with the right combination. If your happy with H1000 stay with it. I went to RL33 and have no plans of going backwards.
A 300SMK at 3,000fps will get the job done. I and my hunting buddies have taken a lot of white tail, Mule deer and Elk at extreme ranges in Colorado and Pa. I see Hornady is bring out a 300gr A-Tip which has a BC of .863 That is really high for a .338 bullet. A fellow posted a picture of one he cut apart there is no void between the aluminum tip and the lead core so it will be questionable how well it will perform on game BC is not everything the bullet has to have reliable expansion the 300gr SMK puts big holes in mule deer and elk at 1850 yards.
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+P THROAT
Feb 21, 2020 21:52:15 GMT -5
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Post by bkm on Feb 21, 2020 21:52:15 GMT -5
I’d hardly call shooting H-1000 going backwards from R-33. While the Alliant powders do yield excellent speed and good accuracy a quick check on the temperature stability doesn’t yield quite so impressive results.
All the Alliant powders I could find on the chart show on average 1.5 fps / degree of temp. H-1000 on the other hand is .21 fps / degree of temp.
A 300 gr bullet fired from ur rifle with R-33 at 3085 fps will drop 57.5 moa or 114” at 1850 yds ( which is where u say u shoot deer and elk ) With even a small swing in temperature of twenty degrees the instability of the powder can change ur speed by 30 fps. Now that same 300 gr bullet is dropping 59 moa or 142”. That’s 28”. That’s more than enough to completely miss even the largest of elk much less a deer.
H-1000 on the other hand only changes .21 fps / degree of temp. That would only be 4.2 inches.
I like speed as much as anyone but never at the expense of accuracy.
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Post by elkman1310 on Feb 22, 2020 22:44:02 GMT -5
I have been at this long range game for over 35 years. Don't believe the charts and advertising that powder companies Put out. All the Elk and mule deer were taken in Colorado at 9500ft elevation. with a average temp of 30 degrees. The rifles we used were 338/378 and a .338/416 improved both burning old surplus IMR 5010 powder which is by no means temp stable which is not a problem because we are hunting in cold weather not hot weather.
To kill animals at ELR you need a accurate rifle that shoots a heavy enough bullet with enough energy remaining to kill the animal cleanly. This is were the .338 really shines. You also have to have a very accurate range finder to give you the correct yardage which we always had. The wind is the unknown factor in the whole deal sometimes we didn't put on click on out to 2,000 yards and other days you had 30 plus feet of wind drift. To keep it simple we never attempted to kill a animal in a unfavorable condition no matter how big it is. Like I tell a lot of people long range hunting is totally different from any other form of hunting you glass from sunrise to sunset an if your in a good area you do get to see more game than most of people but that doesn't mean you'll get to kill anything.
I use H1000 in some of my guns. I simply couldn't get to were I wanted to be with the Edge till I went to RL33.
You should look at your drop chart again at 1850 yards it drops 1,114 inches not 114. If your range is off by even 10 yards at these ELR distances you will miss the animal the size of a deer. So worrying about a few feet of velocity swing really doesn't amount to anything you can have bigger swings in STD then what you temp swing might be.
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+P THROAT
Feb 23, 2020 17:56:46 GMT -5
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Post by bkm on Feb 23, 2020 17:56:46 GMT -5
I stand corrected on the drop chart. I don’t see very well and left a digit out. As for the temp stability powder , we will have to agree to disagree.
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