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Post by smokelessk on Jan 29, 2020 12:28:33 GMT -5
Federal and Traditions released a new muzzeloading platform, the Firestick. Interesting concept. From Federal's website it appears to be rather expensive to shoot. With a ten pack of the Firesticks retailing for $26.99, then add bullet and primers.
What says the masses about this new system?
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Post by outdoors81 on Jan 29, 2020 12:31:43 GMT -5
I wouldn't jump on the band wagon yet. Sounds like they are still working with some states to get the system legal.
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Post by jims on Jan 29, 2020 15:12:45 GMT -5
It would not be permitted in Ohio at this time, needs to be loaded exclusively from the muzzle and have a breech plug.
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Post by hillbill on Jan 29, 2020 15:47:04 GMT -5
It depends on how many steak dinners they spring for courting the right people in the Government circles but my prediction is it will quickly come and go?
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Post by 10gaauto on Jan 29, 2020 16:26:44 GMT -5
It's really an old technology. Just using plastic powder cases instead of brass cases. The early forms of Schuetzen were black powder cases loaded from breech and than a bullet loaded from the muzzle end using a false muzzle. The process is somewhat more detailed but that is the quick and dirty of the process.
How long before there are "custom" guns using the same technology but brass cases and smokeless powder?? Plus how long before somebody "reloads" the cases with whatever? And you have a barrel/action go boom?
LOL, interesting times.
I predict that it will not be around in it's current form very long = my opinion. 10
PS. I'll not get one until it goes smokeless.
see link: www.forgottenweapons.com/book-reviewschuetzen-rifles-history-and-loadings/ |
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Post by dennis on Jan 29, 2020 21:54:21 GMT -5
I believe it will be short lived. Just a novelty.
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Post by hatchetjack1 on Jan 30, 2020 6:48:36 GMT -5
I would never classify this or the new Lehigh rifle as ''muzzleloaders''. They are not. Why they are getting so much attention is beyond me. They are semi breech loaders or semi centerfires at best.
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Post by Ice on Jan 30, 2020 18:26:52 GMT -5
It would not be permitted in Ohio at this time, needs to be loaded exclusively from the muzzle and have a breech plug. Flintlocks aren’t necessarily exclusively load from the muzzle since 4F in the primer pan is used as a “booster”. My guess like Hillbill insinuated is that the upper echelon has already courted government agencies. Not saying that I am interested in owning one, but you never know what the next idea will spawn.... Anyone know the effective range? Probably will be highly reliable to go boom. |
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Post by joelmoney on Jan 31, 2020 2:47:04 GMT -5
It would not be permitted in Ohio at this time, needs to be loaded exclusively from the muzzle and have a breech plug. I don’t believe it would be legal in Minnesota either. |
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Post by smokelessk on Feb 3, 2020 9:34:39 GMT -5
I believe it will be short lived. Just a novelty. I think it's a bit funny. These "major manufacturers" seem to, every year, come up with a "new innovative muzzleloader." Yet every time they fail. Fail miserably to even compete with the mark set by HIS and DI. How much money did Federal and Traditions spend on this project? CVA with their Paramount? The Remington Ultimate? None of them shoot like these HIS and DI guns do. Even if one of those guns did possess the accuracy to compete. Their velocity, with bullets of the same weight, would be lacking by 500 to 800 feet per second. |
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Post by GMB54-120 on Feb 3, 2020 14:10:39 GMT -5
I thought we are talking about sub guns here? So obviously they will lack the raw fps. If you dont think they can shoot killer groups at 500 and beyond you need to talk to Jeff Fisk, Bob Wetzler, Doug Schwartz and several others. They got a buttload of medals from smoker inline matches using almost entirely 209 primers.
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Post by damnyankee on Feb 5, 2020 20:26:27 GMT -5
At $4.00 dollars a round I think i'll stick with my powder measure and scale. Why is it that every time something new is introduced it drives up the cost 50% and ads more plastic? I happily support all the companies that produce shooting equipment but they need to get a grip!
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Post by smokelessk on Feb 5, 2020 22:25:57 GMT -5
I thought we are talking about sub guns here? So obviously they will lack the raw fps. If you dont think they can shoot killer groups at 500 and beyond you need to talk to Jeff Fisk, Bob Wetzler, Doug Schwartz and several others. They got a buttload of medals from smoker inline matches using almost entirely 209 primers. I wasn't so much referring to the capability of new sub guns as I was referring to the incapability of the major manufacturers to engineer an ignition system that tops HIS or DI. It was intended as a compliment to Jeff and the designer, or designers, of the DI system. It just so happened to fall in the sub gun page because it didn't belong on the smokeless page. Just because someone owns a HIS or DI breech plug doesn't mean they have to shoot smokeless. They just have a better ignition system in their rifle than anything "new fangled" that's on the market. My opinion anyway. |
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Post by YankeeReb on Feb 6, 2020 12:14:02 GMT -5
Not legal in my state, powder and bullet must be loaded through the muzzle. I think this will go by the wayside like their suppressed muzzleloader but if not it will be a great project for someone to make brass reloadable modules for it.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Feb 6, 2020 12:52:06 GMT -5
Lehigh is about to offer the Mongrel ML with brass cases. Cost per powder module will be around $1 each. The action is based on a Contender so it looks like pretty much all upgrades will fit it. Neither is legal in my state. Our laws just state ONLY from the muzzle. I take that to mean powder and bullet.
Innovation would be a 40cal sabotless ML shooting bullets from 225gr to 300gr. Doug has shot sabotless 40s with just 84grW of BH209 breaking 2300fps and IIRC over 2400fps with a 250gr 40cal. Thats well into old MLII load data speeds and beats book loads. Knight rifles has already made a prototype 40 and since pressure goes up a fair amount i think they might have been testing LRMP in the 40s. In a 45cal smoker it offers very little over a 209. My Knights are spotless in the breach with a Lehigh or Bestill 209 plug. 100% reliable with a 209 primer and good for about 2100fps with a 300gr bullet sabotless. A Mountaineer 45 1-20 with 110gr by volume gets a 275gr BE out right at 2100fps.
Do the math, a high BC 250gr 40cal at 2400fps will reach out there pretty damn good.
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Post by elkman1310 on Feb 16, 2020 8:01:45 GMT -5
You left out the Bad Bull muzzleloader he is pushing a brass case with a wad as their newest and greatest system. The 209 system is here to stay and I can truly state that when done right it will perform equally well with a lot less cost than the HIS or DI system. I have the 1,000 yard targets to prove it.
The industry is not going to adopt smokeless powder The new CVA Pro really is a step above the 2019 model. It is still stuck with the Vari flame system that is a draw back but over all it is a heck of a gun for %1,499.00
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Post by buckeye68 on Feb 16, 2020 23:27:14 GMT -5
You left out the Bad Bull muzzleloader he is pushing a brass case with a wad as their newest and greatest system. The 209 system is here to stay and I can truly state that when done right it will perform equally well with a lot less cost than the HIS or DI system. I have the 1,000 yard targets to prove it. The industry is not going to adopt smokeless powder The new CVA Pro really is a step above the 2019 model. It is still stuck with the Vari flame system that is a draw back but over all it is a heck of a gun for %1,499.00 For $1499.00 wouldn’t you be better pick up a CVA Scout V2 from Jeff that’s been converted to smokeless and save your self $500? You can shoot smokeless or black powder and get the best ignition system on the market. |
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