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Post by elkman1310 on Jul 19, 2019 17:11:17 GMT -5
Todays bullet makers are able to crank out really good production bullets for hunting an general target shooting. They will do a excellent job for 99% of the people that buy them. Then there is the 1% crowd that shoots long range benchrest an actually need more quality control then a bullet press going 100 mph can deliver. I had high hopes for the Hornady A-Tip which turned out to be a big dud. Other bullet makers have had similar results with some of the latest an greatest low drag bullet designs.
The latest craze is to make the heaviest and longest high BC bullet they can make for the 6mm, 6.5 , 7mm an 30 cal. they look sexy but everyone of them will require a new much faster twist barrel than what most shooters currently have they must be working with the barrel makers to help sell more barrels. Since I am heavily involved in 1,000 benchrest I see a lot of our shooters testing these new bullets and very few have been able to make them shoot consistently as the older style bullets with less BC. Ballistics on paper hardly ever produces the same results on the target when you shoot them they usually have a very narrow window of tune an can fall out of that tune window by only a few thousands of a inch in seating pressure an seating depth not a good place to be with a match gun. You'll get what we call a teaser group that's one good group but not repeatable so you keep testing an testing. The older designs that are shaped like a football shoot consistently better over a longer period of time'
I have a bullet tester called a Junkie machine which is supposed to measure the jacket thickness as the bullet rotates on ball bearings it puts a low voltage current through the bullet an then measures the resistance of the jacket Vern Junkie claimed it would show jackets that are out of round. A lot of benchrest shooters bought these machines years ago most of them went by the way side the one I have actually belongs to a friend of mine who couldn't see where it made any difference when he sorted bullets. Last winter I sorted a bunch of Berger 210gr VLDS an most of mine checked out really good so if you have a good lot of bullets this machine won't pick out the bad ones.
The other day I shot my 7mm Weatherby at 1,000 yards with Berger 180gr Hunting VLD bullets I didn't check anything but the ogive length didn't weigh them or measure AOL or mic the diameter or point or trim them none of that 5 out of the 7 shot really well but 2 went out to the right for no reason because conditions were very good so when I came home I thought it might be time to see how these bullets check out of the Junkie machine wow what a surprise most were fairly good not great but a bunch were down right awful so I put them aside the next time I test this rifle I will shoot 10 of the best and the load 10 an mix 5 of these that check out bad an see what happens we normally color code the bullet with red and green maker so we call tell which is which. Also Berger hunting bullets have a thinner jacket than the target version and there also bigger in diameter mine were .24845 the target is .28415 doesn't sound like much but it can make a big difference in a barrel I have found that fatter bullets usually don't shoot as well as the correct diameter for your bore so I plan on picking up a new box of target 180's tomorrow.
I'll let you now what happens.
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Post by buckeye68 on Jul 19, 2019 18:33:52 GMT -5
Good write up and you explained it very well.
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Post by deadeye on Jul 20, 2019 8:45:32 GMT -5
I share your frustration & its not our imagination.i have had nothing but the same with all these super sleek bc hunting bullets even in the 500yd -700yd range but once in a while with enough tinkering get a few to shoot great.
there is imo some Bullet HorsePuckey going on as I remember approx. 15-18yrs ago calling Berger when they were changing all their stock #"s on the hunting bullets-I was told they were exactly the same as the Target version just boxed in orange? Don't know if that was true but don't doubt it at that time.
I have had some Keyhole(not Bergers) out longer when shot great @ 200yds even though they were supposedly 1.5+ on the miller stability calculator.
On the Hunting side I am going to give the Berger Hunting Elites a shot since a couple of guys shooting elr had great performance on the range out long 1,000yds + & great performance on a moose that I viewed from a cell shot photo.
Btw they make 7mm berger hunting elite in 175gn,i have some but no time to throw any downrange yet.
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Post by elkman1310 on Jul 20, 2019 11:06:25 GMT -5
Just opened a new box of Berger 180 target VLD and check the diameter now these are small measuring .28405 the hunting one are .28445 that's a big difference in the world of match bullets the AOL of both bullets is the same average 1.510. Funny this new box of Berger's says minimum twist rate is 1-8 twist that's clearly wrong the Berger twist rate calculator shows very good stability in a 1-9 even when slowed down to 2650fps. I know they will work in the 1-9 just fine especially at 3,050fps.
The Elite 175gr should be a good bullet it looks like it maybe easier to tune. I checked a few of these new bullets on the Junkie machine they don't check out as good as the best hunting VLD bullets I checked the other night so much for the Junkie machine I really can't do what it claims. Only good test is when you fire them down range on paper an see how they do.
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Post by deadeye on Jul 20, 2019 21:10:55 GMT -5
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Post by gd357 on Jul 22, 2019 22:51:24 GMT -5
Given the last few threads, I have a question for all of you who are proficient long range shooters:
Which bullets have you found to be the most consistent/best shooters off the shelf? I'm sure each manufacturer has some variation, but in your experience which bullet(s) have stood out to you?
Just curious gd
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Post by deadeye on Jul 24, 2019 8:18:15 GMT -5
I dont get to shoot out long as much as i once did but in short,Bergers & have had a lot of success with Nosler Ballistic tips. This is leisure long range shooting not competition.
Hornady Amax in 50Bmg did well also.
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Post by gd357 on Jul 26, 2019 3:50:57 GMT -5
deadeye,
I have a 7mmRM that I tried nosler ballistic tips in for the first load. They shot so well, I never changed... When I did my part it was a 1/2 moa load. For a hunting rifle, I'll take that and run. LOL Haven't tried the Bergers, but a recent project gave me a reason to pose the question. Am thinking 7mm projectiles, probably start with the 168 vld hunting bullet. IF I get things up and running hope they work...
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Post by elkman1310 on Jul 26, 2019 9:01:28 GMT -5
As I pointed out in this post 99% of the bullets made today are of good quality you will not see much of a difference between any one them with the right load combination for your rifle out to 500 yards were the true quality of the bullets show up is at 1,000 yards were trying to put 10 shots in the small hole at that distance the record for light gun is 2.6 inches for 10 shots so the 1000 yard shooters fall into the 1% crowd that need the very best bullets they can buy. I know several shooters that make their own bullets an do well with them most of the time. They will tell you not every bullet is equal when it comes out of that die they may check out the same but there is always something that sets them apart. Every jacket is different an every lead core is different an the amount of lube is slightly different an as the die heats up the bullet is formed differently an the list goes on an on.
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