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Post by itneverends22 on Nov 8, 2015 18:07:29 GMT -5
Good day itneverends22, Yes, I read about what has taken place regarding Lehigh's product design patent being sold to Knight and Knight not offering it with the replaceable vent-liner. Some opine it is due to liability concerns and others say it is simply for profit, selling the entire breach plug will bring in more revenue than selling replacement vent-liners. Oh well, maybe a mix of both. The seller I found will sell me the breach plug and bolt primer adaptor for $45, I will buy the replacement vent-liner from Lehigh. I'm anxious to try this rifle modification and your load recipe to see what effect there will be on accuracy, group consistency and clean up. I'm curious about something you wrote, you state your load is 100 gr "by volume". You must have some sort of graduated measuring device for the powder? Have you ever weighed your volumetric measured charge to learn how much difference there is? I weigh all the powder charges for my hand loads and, of course, I've been using the 50 gr pellets of Triple-Seven in my muzzle-loader so there is no measuring. I'm also curious about the term you used pertaining to your sabots, "(not crushed)". Sorry for all my beginner questions, but what does that mean. After switching from using Powerbelt bullets, I now am using the same bullet as you, Hornady 250 SST with the red sabot they provide with the bullets. You write that you use someone else's sabot, "black MMP" or "Harvester". Why do you favor these? Where do you buy them? Based on my experience thus far with my Knight muzzle-loader, I can't imagine shooting it more than four or five times without a complete cleaning. I don't think I'd even be able to push a bullet down the barrel after four or five shots. Does the Blackhorn powder burn that much cleaner than Triple-Seven? If I had known all this maybe I wouldn't have gotten fed up and spent A LOT OF MONEY on a Hankins SPML! lol I'm still very anxious to receive my new SPML and shoot it to see what it is capable of. Thanks again for your assistance. Regards, Mike Mike , by volume means you have to use a powder measure,you can get them anywhere, I buy my sabots thru havester m. l. look them up on web, they have all sorts of sabots, I just mean't I don't use the crushed sabot, or I buy from mmp sabots, from mmp I just use the short black , because my knight likes them ,I buy the sst's bullets in bulk from local shop, don't worry I'm going to get hankins shooter myself. you will see how clean it is, lastly you should have a adjustable trigger on yours as well. |
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Post by itneverends22 on Nov 8, 2015 18:17:09 GMT -5
All my Knights have a true Lehigh plug and all of them are flawless with a Win209 primer. Ive owned atleast one in every caliber Knight offered and a limited edition GM 54-120 based on the Extreme action. Win209s come out clean and totally dependable with BH209. Other primers come out slightly dirty and occasionally stick in the bolt adapter. The Lehigh bare primer system was designed around the Win209. Flash channel is 5/32 and should be cleaned as needed. I can usually go 50 shots before the carbon gets to be a problem. Knight cant sell a replaceable vent in that plug. Savage/Ball own the patent. Its as simple as that. Lehigh didn't sell any patent to Knight. They are under contract to build them only for Knight. BlackHorn is exceptionally clean in terms of no crud ring and fouling that would make loading difficult. Ive had several 40 shot range days with no swabbing needed. Cleanup requires a centerfire type solvent. Run a dry patch first all the way through the bore before using a solvent. This will remove the bulk of the loose fouling. BTW that Elite trigger should be fully adjustable. Hello,when i got my conversion, I talked to dave at lehigh,and at that time he said the design was around the cci209m, or fed 209a, however win209 would work as well, I stand corrected on the patent, your right dave is under contract.. |
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Post by mike on Nov 8, 2015 18:56:27 GMT -5
itneverends22 and GMB54-120,
Thank you guys for the good information. I'll let you know my opinion once I am able to modify my rifle and shoot it.
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Post by itneverends22 on Nov 8, 2015 19:38:28 GMT -5
itneverends22 and GMB54-120, Thank you guys for the good information. I'll let you know my opinion once I am able to modify my rifle and shoot it. your welcome, I think I know where your going to get the convs, he's good to deal with, good luck, keep us posted.. |
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Post by GMB54-120 on Nov 8, 2015 23:41:36 GMT -5
All my Knights have a true Lehigh plug and all of them are flawless with a Win209 primer. Ive owned atleast one in every caliber Knight offered and a limited edition GM 54-120 based on the Extreme action. Win209s come out clean and totally dependable with BH209. Other primers come out slightly dirty and occasionally stick in the bolt adapter. The Lehigh bare primer system was designed around the Win209. Flash channel is 5/32 and should be cleaned as needed. I can usually go 50 shots before the carbon gets to be a problem. Knight cant sell a replaceable vent in that plug. Savage/Ball own the patent. Its as simple as that. Lehigh didn't sell any patent to Knight. They are under contract to build them only for Knight. BlackHorn is exceptionally clean in terms of no crud ring and fouling that would make loading difficult. Ive had several 40 shot range days with no swabbing needed. Cleanup requires a centerfire type solvent. Run a dry patch first all the way through the bore before using a solvent. This will remove the bulk of the loose fouling. BTW that Elite trigger should be fully adjustable. Hello,when i got my conversion, I talked to dave at lehigh,and at that time he said the design was around the cci209m, or fed 209a, however win209 would work as well, I stand corrected on the patent, your right dave is under contract.. I was one of the first 20 to ever get a Lehigh plug including the earliest design. At that time he told me it was a Win209 when we received the final release version. Fed primers work ok (slightly dirty)but sometimes the anvil backs out of the primer cup. I shoot some pretty stiff BH209 load though including 80gr and 465gr conicals in my 45cal and 130gr of powder with a 325gr in my 52cal. CCI and especially Rem primers come out pretty dirty. Win209s come out spotless and almost never stick in the bolt adapter. From Elite 45  These are from my 54cal. Some of them were with 120gr and a 385gr Rem CLHP. The rest of the bullet shot were 300gr.  |
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Post by GMB54-120 on Nov 8, 2015 23:48:18 GMT -5
mike
You can weigh BH209. I do. Its the only black powder sub that is safe to run through auto powder dispensers like the RCBS 1500 Chargemaster. The conversion is simple.
120gr by volume=84gr by weight
100gr by volume=70gr by weight
80gr by volume=56gr by weight
Volume x .7=weight
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Post by itneverends22 on Nov 9, 2015 8:03:55 GMT -5
Hello,when i got my conversion, I talked to dave at lehigh,and at that time he said the design was around the cci209m, or fed 209a, however win209 would work as well, I stand corrected on the patent, your right dave is under contract.. I was one of the first 20 to ever get a Lehigh plug including the earliest design. At that time he told me it was a Win209 when we received the final release version. Fed primers work ok (slightly dirty)but sometimes the anvil backs out of the primer cup. I shoot some pretty stiff BH209 load though including 80gr and 465gr conicals in my 45cal and 130gr of powder with a 325gr in my 52cal. CCI and especially Rem primers come out pretty dirty. Win209s come out spotless and almost never stick in the bolt adapter. From Elite 45 These are from my 54cal. Some of them were with 120gr and a 385gr Rem CLHP. The rest of the bullet shot were 300gr. HI, I also have the first design, my spent primers come out the same, very clean, when they get a little dirty I know it's time to clean b p. I've never had any type of primers stick yet.. I as well, have shot some hefty loads.. |
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Post by itneverends22 on Nov 9, 2015 8:14:21 GMT -5
mike You can weigh BH209. I do. Its the only black powder sub that is safe to run through auto powder dispensers like the RCBS 1500 Chargemaster. The conversion is simple. 120gr by volume=84gr by weight 100gr by volume=70gr by weight 80gr by volume=56gr by weight Volume x .7=weight this is good to know, I've always measured my powder, I'll have to try it.. |
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Post by GMB54-120 on Nov 9, 2015 9:58:38 GMT -5
The sticking primers mainly come from my Super DSIC 45 i converted to bare primer. I shoot that one sabotless. Max pressure is about 25% higher than typical 45cal sabot loads. Re-firing the spent primer takes care of it.
I still have my version one plug. That one is a little different. It creates a little more "seal" on the sides of the primers. None of the primers come out as clean as the 7 final version plugs i have. They are not real bad though. The breach stays pretty darn clean with either version. The Win209 in the final version gets a slight crush on the nose of the primer. None of the other primers ive measured do.
There is a semi permanent fix though. You can shim the primer pocket with a SS washer. IIRC McMasters sells a SS washer that is thin enough to work. I know several people that do this because they want to use a certain brand of primer. The anvils no longer back out when the head space it tightened up.
I prefer to measure mine just for 2 reasons. I have a RCBS Chargemaster 1500 combo so its super easy to weigh out a bunch of tubes. Plus BH209 is so expensive it cuts way down on wasted powder.
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Post by mike on Nov 9, 2015 22:46:51 GMT -5
Hey GMB54-120,
Thanks for more very good information. I did not know the .7 multiplier for converting volumetric to weight measurement.
By the way, I notice you have a Model 20 Ultra Light Arms. Is it the muzzle-loader or a center-fire? How do you like it? I met Melvin Forbes in Morgantown a couple years ago.
I'll let you guys know my findings after I get the bare-primer conversion and am able to shoot the rifle.
Regards, Mike |
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Post by GMB54-120 on Nov 10, 2015 9:36:37 GMT -5
Hey GMB54-120,
Thanks for more very good information. I did not know the .7 multiplier for converting volumetric to weight measurement.
By the way, I notice you have a Model 20 Ultra Light Arms. Is it the muzzle-loader or a center-fire? How do you like it? I met Melvin Forbes in Morgantown a couple years ago.
I'll let you guys know my findings after I get the bare-primer conversion and am able to shoot the rifle.
Regards, Mike My ULA is a early production model 20 50cal smokeless. Its one of the first 50 made and has Ultra Light Arms and model 20 on the receiver. Mine has a special order barrel that is 2" longer and just a tiny bit more meat near the breach. I love it. It shoots extremely well with N110, SR4759 and even N120. I normally shoot 225gr XPBs and 275gr BEs. I tried to buy another in 45cal but Melvin wouldn't make them in 45cal anymore. I think you will like the bare primer plug. If you get one from Knight, the brazed in vents seem to wear faster. I know someone that can remove it and set it up for removable vents. BTW here is my ULA with the factory Talley mediums. The scope has a 32mm objective.  |
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Post by itneverends22 on Nov 10, 2015 11:05:36 GMT -5
Hey GMB54-120,
Thanks for more very good information. I did not know the .7 multiplier for converting volumetric to weight measurement.
By the way, I notice you have a Model 20 Ultra Light Arms. Is it the muzzle-loader or a center-fire? How do you like it? I met Melvin Forbes in Morgantown a couple years ago.
I'll let you guys know my findings after I get the bare-primer conversion and am able to shoot the rifle.
Regards, Mike mike did you order that convs,? is it still 45 for 1 80 for 2 ?.. |
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Post by mike on Nov 10, 2015 23:25:37 GMT -5
GMB54-120,
Nice photo of your ULA (NULA) muzzle-loader. I believe all his muzzle-loaders were built after he bought the company back, less company name, from Colt and was forced to rename it New Ultra Light Arms. What size three shot groups will it punch at 100 yards? How much does it weigh with scope? I can't see the end of the barrel in your photo to know if it is equipped with a muzzle brake, but if not, does it have ferocious recoil since it probably doesn't weigh more than 7 pounds with the scope? Is the barrel bedded full stock length like the center-fire rifles are? Forbes builds very nice super light-weight rifles.
Pertaining to the bare-primer breach-plug, I located someone who has the Lehigh parts that do accept the vent-liner replacement.
itneverends22,
I did order the breach-plug and primer adaptor from Buddy T in Pennsylvania, and yes, he still delivers one for $45 and two for $80. I also ordered the vent-liner pack of four from Lehigh and this afternoon stopped at Cabela's and picked up a container of Blackhorn 209. I already have a supply of Hornady 250 gr. SST low drag bullets and Winchester 209 primers so I'm ready to hit the range as soon as the conversion arrives. I'm excited to shoot the Knight rifle, learn how it groups and see how clean it shoots.
At the very least, if I don't receive my new Hankins SPML, I will have the Knight all set up and ready to go for my West Virginia hunt Thanksgiving week and a Christmas week muzzle-loader only hunt in far west-central Missouri. Not a chance I'll have the Hankins rifle for my West Virginia hunt, but really hope I have the Hankins rifle in time to have it all set up and sighted in for the Missouri hunt.
Once again guys, I appreciate the assistance with all your good information and recommendations. I'll definitely let you know how things work out.
Regards,
Mike
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Post by GMB54-120 on Nov 11, 2015 9:08:21 GMT -5
Yes its full length bedded and weighs in right at 7lbs with scope and sling ready to hunt. No muzzle break. Recoil isnt bad except for the 275gr BE load at 2400fps. The 225gr XPB with N110 is not bad at all. I shoot the 225gr FTX for fun with 38gr-40gr of N110. It pretty much shoots like this.    There is a good chance those low drag sabots will be a bit loose in a Knight bore. I would try a HPH-12 and HPH-24. If the HPH-24 fits, the Harvester black smooth short should also fit well. |
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