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Post by mike on Nov 3, 2015 0:32:15 GMT -5
I'm wondering if anyone can help me with the ring height I should order for the new SPML I have on order with Jeff Hankins. I have a Leupold VX-6 3-18 50mm that I want to mount as low as possible to the barrel (Brux barrel with Jeff's standard contour recommendation, don't remember exactly). I'd like to use the Talley one-piece lightweight aluminum scope ring/base. I'm thinking the medium height should fit well (.500" front, .610" rear, not sure exactly what these Talley measurements mean?), but not exactly sure. Don't have the rifle yet, but I want to have everything ready to go. Since there is only 3 weeks before I leave for West Virginia.
Another question is where is the best place to buy Parker bullets? One of the guy's on this site suggested 275 grain match hunter.
I've already got a couple pounds of the IMR4198, what primers do I need? Is there anything else I have to get to be ready to sight-in my new muzzle-loader when I get it?
Thanks for your help.
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Post by hillbill on Nov 3, 2015 5:37:14 GMT -5
I have used Talley picatinny rails bedded to the receiver but never their rings, Im not a fan of two piece but that's just me. I use low ring height with the pic rings and it usually works well with 50 mm obj BUT that is using a rail and pic rings.
parker Productions for bullets and if he is out let me know and I have a box I can spare.
as far as primers Im using Winchester but honestly I don't think it matters, I have also used cci and feds with good results..
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Post by hillbill on Nov 3, 2015 5:37:56 GMT -5
I have used Talley picatinny rails bedded to the receiver but never their rings, Im not a fan of two piece but that's just me. I use low ring height with the pic rings and it usually works well with 50 mm obj BUT that is using a rail and pic rings.
parker Productions for bullets and if he is out let me know and I have a box I can spare, or Luke at arrowhead likely has some.
as far as primers Im using Winchester but honestly I don't think it matters, I have also used cci and feds with good results..
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2015 8:03:48 GMT -5
I've used the Talley one piece mounts and rings on both a Savage and Remington conversion. The medium height worked well on both a 44mm or 50mm scope for me. Zen
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Post by itneverends22 on Nov 3, 2015 10:37:01 GMT -5
I always go as low as I can in target shooting, but when hunting, I always use a higher ring on my hunting set up, I take into account the extra clothes and all. more than once while still hunting, I've shoulder my gun only to get a piece of clothing caught between my cheek and stock, and have to readjust for shot, for me the extra hieght works, how does the old saying goes, (bring the gun to your head, not your head to the gun)..
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Post by mike on Nov 3, 2015 11:40:27 GMT -5
Thanks for the info Guys.
HillBill, sorry my primer question was not as clear as it should have been. I meant to ask what type and size primers do I need: large rifle, large rifle magnum, small rifle, etc.? I reload a bunch of different calibers so I should have what I need, but want to know the exact type. And thank you very much for offering to sell me some of your personal stock. I'll make some calls today to get an order going so I don't have to put you out, but, once again, thank you kindly.
Zen, thank you for the recommendation. With time so short before my first hunt, the last thing I want is to have the wrong height and have to re-order a new set in a panic. Just have to hope Jeff finishes up my new SPML in time to scope and zero it. Was supposed to receive it in August, but Jeff told me he is covered up in work right now. I understand, everybody pushing to get their new rifle for hunting season.
itneverends22, thanks for the wisdom of your experience. I hate when something happens and my normal cheek-weld is altered. Consistency is the name of the game so I never have anything between my skin and the rifle's stock when I sight-in and take a shot at game. And even then I've had my fair share of completely unexplained misses. Nicked a branch, wind gusted, deer took a step, my heart beat at the wrong instant, sun was in my eyes, nose was running..... lol
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Post by itneverends22 on Nov 3, 2015 11:46:59 GMT -5
Thanks for the info Guys. HillBill, sorry my primer question was not as clear as it should have been. I meant to ask what type and size primers do I need: large rifle, large rifle magnum, small rifle, etc.? I reload a bunch of different calibers so I should have what I need, but want to know the exact type. And thank you very much for offering to sell me some of your personal stock. I'll make some calls today to get an order going so I don't have to put you out, but, once again, thank you kindly. Zen, thank you for the recommendation. With time so short before my first hunt, the last thing I want is to have the wrong height and have to re-order a new set in a panic. Just have to hope Jeff finishes up my new SPML in time to scope and zero it. Was supposed to receive it in August, but Jeff told me he is covered up in work right now. I understand, everybody pushing to get their new rifle for hunting season. itneverends22, thanks for the wisdom of your experience. I hate when something happens and my normal cheek-weld is altered. Consistency is the name of the game so I never have anything between my skin and the rifle's stock when I sight-in and take a shot at game. And even then I've had my fair share of completely unexplained misses. Nicked a branch, wind gusted, deer took a step, my heart beat at the wrong instant, sun was in my eyes, nose was running..... lol LOL, Mike your welcome,, been there done that!
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Post by hillbill on Nov 3, 2015 14:16:41 GMT -5
Lmrp on the primers
As far as rings and bases go, you can use what you want, just make sure they are good quality.
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Post by Richard on Nov 3, 2015 17:02:05 GMT -5
I have been a big fan of the Burris Tactical rings with the "three screws per side" on a Steel Picatinny rail. I have used the one from Brownell's as it is about $20 to $30 cheaper than the Farrell and just as good.
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Post by rojo23 on Nov 3, 2015 20:09:42 GMT -5
I have been a big fan of the Burris Tactical rings with the "three screws per side" on a Steel Picatinny rail. I have used the one from Brownell's as it is about $20 to $30 cheaper than the Farrell and just as good. X2 what Richard said. I have 2 rifles with the burris tactical rings on a picatinny rail. The rings are fairly affordable compared to other tactical rings. I have them on my .308 and my .260, I am sure they would be fine on the mule kicking muzzleloaders.
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Post by longrange on Nov 4, 2015 20:49:03 GMT -5
Is your scope tube one inch or 30 mm?
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Post by mike on Nov 5, 2015 22:13:35 GMT -5
The Leupold VX-6 3-18 50mm has a 30 mm tube. The drop from the tube to the bottom of the objective bell is .609”. I spoke to Jeff to ask if he knows the drop from the top of the SPML’s receiver to the #19 Hunter Brux barrel, he did not know. That barrel is 1.25” diameter for the first four inches and tapers down to .750” at 26” according to the Brux website. It’s hard to see what the drop is from viewing the photo of the SPML on Hankins’ website. Looks almost flush, which means I’ll have to really elevate the scope to prevent the objective bell from contacting the barrel. I’ll have to delay ordering rings until I get the rifle and can measure for myself. Jeff did remind me that I’ll need at least an extra .062” if I plan to install Butler Creek scope caps.
The good news is Jeff thought that he should start putting together my rifle after he finishes maybe three others before mine. Sort of resigned to my belief that I’ll have to take my crumby Knight black powder rifle when I leave for West Virginia in a couple weeks. I’ll also take a center-fire rifle since I can use either for their Thanksgiving week opener. Can't wait to get out in the woods!
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Post by itneverends22 on Nov 6, 2015 9:53:51 GMT -5
mike, I've had my knight disc since 1999, its been a teriffic shooter, its getting worn though may have to rebarrel it or maybe send it to jeff for work, may I ask what knight you have?
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Post by mike on Nov 6, 2015 11:19:55 GMT -5
itneverends22, mine is a D.I.S.C. Elite. My experience with this blackpowder gun is inconsistency besides the increasingly annoying filthy grimy mess created from shooting it. It of course can't group like a centerfire rifle, but beyond that it seems like the point of impact changes with the increasing amount of barrel fouling. When at the range I will completely clean the barrel every three of four shots with a couple primer fouling shots before I launch my first round downrange. And even then my third round of a group seems to have a tendency to be a flier. I use three 50 grain pellets of Triple-Seven behind either 245 grain .45 cal Hornady SST in a sabot or 245 and have tried 270 grain .50 cal Powerboat aerotips. Haven't really noticed much difference in accuracy consistency from any of the loads. For loading the Powerboats are certainly easier to push down the barrel. I think I even experimented with two pellets (100 grains) of Triple-Seven with no appreciable difference in tightening up the groups. Don't take my comment the wrong way, I said "my crumby Knight"; it is a good looking well built gun with it's camo synthetic stock, matte stainless Green Mountain barrel topped with a Leupold VX-3 3 to 9 42mm variable. The trigger has a bit too much creep for me to give it a compliment, but within 100 yards or so it has killed a number of deer and a coyote last year. Maybe I expect to much from the gun's 100 yard grouping ability, 1" or 1-1/2" typically for the first two rounds opening up to approximately 3" for the third round flier. I've shot groups at 200 yards as well, but decided all conditions would have to be perfect with a rock-solid rest for me to attempt a 200 yard shot at a deer.
Really looking forward to receiving my new Hankins SPML and launching some lead downrange to see what it can do at 100 and 200 yards. Also looking forward to not having to deal with the muddy grimy cleaning mess.
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Post by mike on Nov 6, 2015 11:22:26 GMT -5
Sorry for the spell-check, I really hate it sometimes. "POWERBELT" not powerboat. lol
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Post by itneverends22 on Nov 6, 2015 11:55:50 GMT -5
itneverends22, mine is a D.I.S.C. Elite. My experience with this blackpowder gun is inconsistency besides the increasingly annoying filthy grimy mess created from shooting it. It of course can't group like a centerfire rifle, but beyond that it seems like the point of impact changes with the increasing amount of barrel fouling. When at the range I will completely clean the barrel every three of four shots with a couple primer fouling shots before I launch my first round downrange. And even then my third round of a group seems to have a tendency to be a flier. I use three 50 grain pellets of Triple-Seven behind either 245 grain .45 cal Hornady SST in a sabot or 245 and have tried 270 grain .50 cal Powerboat aerotips. Haven't really noticed much difference in accuracy consistency from any of the loads. For loading the Powerboats are certainly easier to push down the barrel. I think I even experimented with two pellets (100 grains) of Triple-Seven with no appreciable difference in tightening up the groups. Don't take my comment the wrong way, I said "my crumby Knight"; it is a good looking well built gun with it's camo synthetic stock, matte stainless Green Mountain barrel topped with a Leupold VX-3 3 to 9 42mm variable. The trigger has a bit too much creep for me to give it a compliment, but within 100 yards or so it has killed a number of deer and a coyote last year. Maybe I expect to much from the gun's 100 yard grouping ability, 1" or 1-1/2" typically for the first two rounds opening up to approximately 3" for the third round flier. I've shot groups at 200 yards as well, but decided all conditions would have to be perfect with a rock-solid rest for me to attempt a 200 yard shot at a deer. Really looking forward to receiving my new Hankins SPML and launching some lead downrange to see what it can do at 100 and 200 yards. Also looking forward to not having to deal with the muddy grimy cleaning mess. mike when I first got mine, I did have all the mess, I shot with 2ff goex and a number of good bullets, But after researching different places, I replaced my breach plug, with the lehigh and bare primer conversion (fed 209a) and bh 209, and the mess was all gone, no swabbing between shots, just cleaned it with hoppes when done, 1in groups at 150, longest harvest was 186yds, never shot powerbelts, ( oh that was 100grains by volume of bh 209 powder..)
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Post by mike on Nov 7, 2015 23:21:22 GMT -5
Hi itneverends22,
I did some internet surfing and found someone who told me they have the original bare primer conversion with replaceable vent-liner. Hope to buy one from this person.
What brand, type and weight bullet do you shoot with the charge of 100 grains of BH 209 powder? Thanks for the information and your assistance.
Regards, Mike
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Post by itneverends22 on Nov 8, 2015 0:24:23 GMT -5
Hi itneverends22, I did some internet surfing and found someone who told me they have the original bare primer conversion with replaceable vent-liner. Hope to buy one from this person. What brand, type and weight bullet do you shoot with the charge of 100 grains of BH 209 powder? Thanks for the information and your assistance. Regards, Mike Mike,that would be great if you have someone with the conversion, lehigh sold the patent to knight, and they have them, only thing,ventliner is not replacable, I see them for sale alot on ebay, anyways, my load now is 100 gr by volume bh 209, with hornaday 250 sst, black mmp or harvester sabot ( not crushed),and fed 209a or cci209m primer. i've shot .44 cal speer gold dot, 270, 300 gr with green sabot, both excellent results, and ( plenty of game) and a host of others, but now i hunt with the 250sst and load mentioned above,,, if you get that conversion, you will see a big difference in that knight, also when you clean the barrel, just use hoppes 9 with brush and patch, I shoot mine all year and never clean the bolt or plug but once a year. cause its that clean using that conversion , when i do clean the plug it has very little carbon in it, hope this helps, if not let me know... oh mike best thing, you don't have to clean between rounds just loads and shoot..clean at the end,, charlie.
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Post by mike on Nov 8, 2015 16:44:41 GMT -5
Good day itneverends22,
Yes, I read about what has taken place regarding Lehigh's product design patent being sold to Knight and Knight not offering it with the replaceable vent-liner. Some opine it is due to liability concerns and others say it is simply for profit, selling the entire breach plug will bring in more revenue than selling replacement vent-liners. Oh well, maybe a mix of both.
The seller I found will sell me the breach plug and bolt primer adaptor for $45, I will buy the replacement vent-liner from Lehigh. I'm anxious to try this rifle modification and your load recipe to see what effect there will be on accuracy, group consistency and clean up.
I'm curious about something you wrote, you state your load is 100 gr "by volume". You must have some sort of graduated measuring device for the powder? Have you ever weighed your volumetric measured charge to learn how much difference there is? I weigh all the powder charges for my hand loads and, of course, I've been using the 50 gr pellets of Triple-Seven in my muzzle-loader so there is no measuring.
I'm also curious about the term you used pertaining to your sabots, "(not crushed)". Sorry for all my beginner questions, but what does that mean. After switching from using Powerbelt bullets, I now am using the same bullet as you, Hornady 250 SST with the red sabot they provide with the bullets. You write that you use someone else's sabot, "black MMP" or "Harvester". Why do you favor these? Where do you buy them?
Based on my experience thus far with my Knight muzzle-loader, I can't imagine shooting it more than four or five times without a complete cleaning. I don't think I'd even be able to push a bullet down the barrel after four or five shots. Does the Blackhorn powder burn that much cleaner than Triple-Seven?
If I had known all this maybe I wouldn't have gotten fed up and spent A LOT OF MONEY on a Hankins SPML! lol I'm still very anxious to receive my new SPML and shoot it to see what it is capable of.
Thanks again for your assistance.
Regards, Mike
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Post by GMB54-120 on Nov 8, 2015 16:52:13 GMT -5
All my Knights have a true Lehigh plug and all of them are flawless with a Win209 primer. Ive owned atleast one in every caliber Knight offered and a limited edition GM 54-120 based on the Extreme action. Win209s come out clean and totally dependable with BH209. Other primers come out slightly dirty and occasionally stick in the bolt adapter.
The Lehigh bare primer system was designed around the Win209. Flash channel is 5/32 and should be cleaned as needed. I can usually go 50 shots before the carbon gets to be a problem.
Knight cant sell a replaceable vent in that plug. Savage/Ball own the patent. Its as simple as that. Lehigh didn't sell any patent to Knight. They are under contract to build them only for Knight.
BlackHorn is exceptionally clean in terms of no crud ring and fouling that would make loading difficult. Ive had several 40 shot range days with no swabbing needed. Cleanup requires a centerfire type solvent. Run a dry patch first all the way through the bore before using a solvent. This will remove the bulk of the loose fouling.
BTW that Elite trigger should be fully adjustable.
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