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Post by Hank on Oct 30, 2015 18:09:00 GMT -5
Lately I've had several Remington 700 receivers where the timing was so far off that it would not extract the priming modules I use with my ignition system. I've seen this problem a few times over the years but lately it's becoming more and more frequent. I had one last week that was really bad so I decided to do a video as to how I go about fixing this problem.
I have noticed that most of these have been of recent manufacture and have a serial # starting with RR******
In this video I will show you how I fix them. You could send it back to Remington and have them repair or replace it but that could take weeks or months and once you have modified the rifle I would think they would void the warranties anyway,, so I fix them myself and this is how I do it..
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2015 19:16:59 GMT -5
Great video Jeff, very informative.
BTW: You have a great gal there!
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Post by Richard on Oct 30, 2015 20:15:42 GMT -5
Two excellent video's Jeff! Question?.............I understand how you fix the timing problem but was wondering why you might not remove the bolt handle..............move it closer to the action and tig the handle back onto the bolt?...........I understand it might be a little more work? But you would not be messing on the action? I might also note that on ALL my rifles, I add a little dab of grease to that caming location to prevent wear and to aid the transition of the bolt moving rearward. Also a small dab of grease on those nice locking lugs you machined. Here again, two steel surfaces being drawn together will go smoother with a little high pressure grease. I see so many shooters/hunters who never grease these lugs and that cam area. Thanks again for the video!
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Post by hillbill on Oct 30, 2015 21:07:43 GMT -5
good, clear, easy to understand.
great work!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2015 23:05:19 GMT -5
Great video's Jeff and nice fix. My Remington 700 Ultimate ML action has the same problem and it also has the "RR" serial number. I tried a bolt from another 700 action and the timing is perfect, witch leads me to believe that the bolt handles are not being attached in the proper location.
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Post by jims on Oct 31, 2015 7:07:30 GMT -5
Hopefully Big Green will be advised.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2015 8:13:38 GMT -5
Remington knows about mine and sent a call tag link to be filled out for pick up, but I told the rep that I would wait until after hunting season before sending it in.
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Post by Hank on Oct 31, 2015 9:36:24 GMT -5
The problem might be the placement of the bolt handle and moving it might fix the extraction problem. However, removing the handle and reinstalling it is a little more intense than tig welding a spot weld on the action and cleaning it up. Especially on the stainless actions. Removing the bolt handle and cleaning off all the silver solder and repositioning it for tig welding would take much longer so I decided to fix it another way.
Moving the handle forward, I think would not allow enough room in the action cutout for the handle to close as you must maintain a distance between the locking lug of the bolt and the bolt handle, close this distance up and the bolt would not close.
Moving the handle up would engage it into the cam a little sooner allowing for the force backward but this also might great a problem with the position of the locking lugs.
The easiest fix for me was to tig it... And being I don't charge "money" for this repair it only makes since to me to do it the most economical way I can for myself.
The grease on the locking lugs and extraction areas is a must.... I grease every rifle before it leaves my shop...
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Post by rojo23 on Oct 31, 2015 10:21:30 GMT -5
Great video. Good to know if I ever run into a problem.
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Post by rlp10ml on Nov 1, 2015 4:49:57 GMT -5
Hey Guys.......The Muzzleloader shown in the video is mine.Jeff called me about this problem with the extraction and to be honest with everyone,I really didn't understand it.I immediately thought he was talking about the ejector spring and pin,which aren't used in these guns.Jeff said he would fix it for me but the action would have to be re-ceracoated.Okay.....I got the barreled action back from Jeff last week and of course looked it over real good.In the little baggie of left over parts was the ejector spring and pin,so I was then wondering "what the heck"..Jeff also mentioned he was going to make a video of the fix he performs on these problem actions.Now that Jeff has posted the video I now fully understand exactly what he meant,which I did not before.After seeing the video I immediately went and grabbed the gun to "check out his welding".I now have to say this to everyone out there ---- There is absolutely no way you can tell that Jeff welded on my action!,there are no file marks or sand scratches or imperfections of any kind that would lead me to believe Jeff did this except the video!!! My hat is off to Jeff and the quality of his builds and his attention to detail and perfection.Thank you Jeff for the video and my Muzzleloader.......................Rich
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Post by jims on Nov 1, 2015 9:19:30 GMT -5
Remington unfortunately has had a share of mechanical problems etc. with a variety of their firearms in the last several years. Hopefully they can get a handle on it. I have a Rem 700 .243 that I purchased new 2 or 3 years ago. It has a serial number RR 56179C. No problems like that with it except they had a trigger recall, I did not want to send it in so I just added an older style Rem trigger I had modified. It did not make them happy but I was.
I only gave the serial number, with a number of them one might be able to determine where in the production run it started and hopefully stopped.
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Post by slammer on Nov 1, 2015 22:02:45 GMT -5
I have a brand new 700 action I bought at auction with the rr serial # and I just checked it and the bolt dosent even touch the part that it has to to kick the shell out . Should I tell Remington
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Post by Deleted on Nov 2, 2015 0:09:01 GMT -5
I have a brand new 700 action I bought at auction with the rr serial # and I just checked it and the bolt dosent even touch the part that it has to to kick the shell out . Should I tell Remington Yes call Remington, they need to know they have a quality control issue. |
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Post by rossman40 on Nov 2, 2015 11:39:03 GMT -5
A quick fix but I have to agree with Richard, IMO moving the bolt handle would have been the right path. There is a clearance problem but if you over do adding metal you could run into a timing problem. When you lift the bolt handle to the point where the handle contacts the small ramp at the same time up front the bolthead's leading edge should be at a point that is over the ramps that is cut on the lugs in the action. If the bolt handle tries to cam to the rear before the bolthead reaches the ramp it will stick. Also the angle of the cam at the rear is a pretty close match to the angle of the front ramps, if the rear cams faster then the front angle it will also stick. There should not be a clearance problem with the stock moving the handle .025" or more forward, your just putting the handle where it should have been to start with. As far as time wise I have done a bolt handle in less then an hour on a SS model.
Jeff, you go thru the hassle of truing up the bolt lug and lugs in the action, do you lap them afterwards?
I've been in several shops that blueprint Remy actions, 99.9% of the time the handles are re-done.
To me it just sucks that brand new Remington doesn't come right from the factory.
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Post by Hank on Nov 3, 2015 13:14:50 GMT -5
A quick fix but I have to agree with Richard, IMO moving the bolt handle would have been the right path. There is a clearance problem but if you over do adding metal you could run into a timing problem. When you lift the bolt handle to the point where the handle contacts the small ramp at the same time up front the bolthead's leading edge should be at a point that is over the ramps that is cut on the lugs in the action. If the bolt handle tries to cam to the rear before the bolthead reaches the ramp it will stick. Also the angle of the cam at the rear is a pretty close match to the angle of the front ramps, if the rear cams faster then the front angle it will also stick. There should not be a clearance problem with the stock moving the handle .025" or more forward, your just putting the handle where it should have been to start with. As far as time wise I have done a bolt handle in less then an hour on a SS model. Jeff, you go thru the hassle of truing up the bolt lug and lugs in the action, do you lap them afterwards? I've been in several shops that blueprint Remy actions, 99.9% of the time the handles are re-done. To me it just sucks that brand new Remington doesn't come right from the factory. Adding to much metal on the action would indeed cause you another problem by throwing the timing off in the opposite direction. That's why I add it then file it off to the correct amount. Moving the bolt handle forward on the bolt is IMO not the correct fix, moving it upward on the bolt would fix the problem by making it engage the angled cut on the action sooner, however I choose to fix it by leaving the bolt alone and working on the action. There's more than one way to skin a cat, so each smith can choose his method as to how he wants to fix the problems. As for blue printing actions,,, I don't blueprint actions that I use on ML builds as I see no advantage in doing so. It just adds work and expense to the build. But on center fire actions that I build using blueprinted actions, yes I lap the lugs before any barrel work is done. The problem with Remington actions is they are mass produced under production tolerances and as with any factory you have people working there that really just don't give a heck and some days are good and some are bad, besides the Remington's can be bought for a fraction of what a good custom action cost. Remington actions are still (IMO) the best actions to use when building a rifle if cost is a concern, a little work and you have an action that can and will shoot with the custom actions. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 28, 2016 18:36:48 GMT -5
I sent my Remington Ultimate back to have the extraction issue fixed and it only took 19 days until it was back in my hands from the day it was picked up. Remington installed a new bolt and now my priming modules will extract, but just barely. I don't think it is perfect but it works and it didn't cost me a penny.
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Post by keith on Jan 29, 2016 7:00:03 GMT -5
I'm with Rossman on this. I have two en route to LRI for timing (and AW cut out) because they need lateral and rotational adjustments. That needs to happen on the bolt.
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Post by keith on Jan 31, 2016 10:02:42 GMT -5
I shot the Creed for the first time this week. I knew my "RR" prefix action had more than optimal clearance and it was discussed when the gun was getting barreled. It's twin has a PT&G bolt that has a nearly perfect fit. There is a noticeable, tactile difference in primary extraction. That prompted me to measure some guns that are properly timed vice my RR. Remington "RR" prefix action, unmodified handle timing, lugs trued and clearance of .027":  Remington "E" prefix action, unmodified handle timing, lugs trued and clearance of .010":  Remington "G" prefix action, PT&G bolt, clearance of .004". This gun is the other 6.5 Creed, really slick and feels exactly like the Accurate Ordnance action on his .308 which also measured .004":  Pierce Engineering action used with HIS, clearance of .006"  |
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rodb
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Post by rodb on Nov 11, 2016 22:42:32 GMT -5
Jeff built my Rimington #RR**** 700 action recently which I just checked and it measures .020 on the gap before hitting the primary extraction cam. Extraction has been perfect.
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Post by sagittarius on Dec 7, 2017 9:47:59 GMT -5
I've always despised the tiny Remington extractor and preferred a claw extractor for my hunting rifles.
That's the main reason I would want a custom action with a Sako or Mini 16 extractor for a muzzleloader build.
Defiant now has a claw extractor for their actions, for those who want one of the best centerfire actions for hunting.
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