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Post by deadeer on Dec 13, 2017 21:26:29 GMT -5
My hunting grounds that I hunt from long range are no good this year, so I have done most of my hunting in the woods. I have been using my old Savage 10ml 2, 45 PacNor barrel, 209 gun. Boring load of 60gr N120, harvestor light blue sabot under a 200sst. Shot this old girl at about 125yds double lunger. She ran about 50-60yds right to me. Nice to see the old time gun/loads still performing.   |
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Post by joelmoney on Dec 13, 2017 22:02:44 GMT -5
Mmmm freezer fillers. Nothing wrong with the results. Thanks for sharing.
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Post by dennis on Dec 14, 2017 8:19:45 GMT -5
Stack'em up.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2017 9:00:05 GMT -5
Way to go...
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Post by itneverends22 on Dec 14, 2017 10:32:45 GMT -5
Awesome! good job..
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Post by sew on Dec 15, 2017 9:07:38 GMT -5
Congratulations! Interesting comment: “old time guns/loads still performing”.
I view my original 10ML2 loaded with 42-44g VV110/300SST as old school , and my PacNor barreled 10ML2s 45 &40 with ventliner or bushing / 200SSTs, 195Bs,240 CEBs as rather modern.
However, time marches on. What was leading edge in 2005 is “old time” in 2017. Since “Old time” technology meets my wants/needs , and I already own that technology, I’ll stay with what I have. Maybe “splurge” and get a Lee 401 sizing die, Pittman 225s or stay with CEB 240s, new bushings. Deer hunting 0-200 yds; and on some places 300 yds, the 40/Pittman 225 @ 2,600-2,700’/sec surely will be adequate.
Sometimes I just feel like Captain Daniel McCormick (Mel Gibson) in Forever Young.
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Post by jims on Dec 15, 2017 16:46:17 GMT -5
I tend to think like several of you. I have some subcaliber barrels but they still use 209 primers but for the most part all bushings. Shoot some duplex. I have seen many advances and it looks like more on the horizon. For what I do I have no reason to change at this time, if I sold a few of my MLs and had to get to just 2 or 3 I might make some changes. With the pace of change I might still soon be in the past again. The real jump for me and the difference to me is smokeless. I shot a number of deer with a sidelock and pyrodex, worked OK but smokeless was the game changer for me.
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Post by sew on Dec 15, 2017 21:26:49 GMT -5
I think a # of us have a rather limited, we’ll defined envelope of usage. Mine is simple. 90+% of my hunting is with xbow, and the rest, but most anticipated, is with MLer. I have no interest beyond 300 yds and 200-250 will cover virtually all of my hunting. Most is below 100 yds. No energy above what is needed to cleanly harvest a deer is needed; and in some cases, 200SST, is undesirable. I don’t enjoy excess recoil nor do my scopes.
So for many of us, a saboted 40 cal bullet is highly satisfactory; and, there are now so many good choices with excellent BCs and terminal performance. Same bullets in a 40 are even better, imo. Vent liners, bushings, 209s all seem to work well with these bullets and common loads. For those of us with 10ML2s and 45 cal break opens, I’d expect these lighter loads are safer and more practical.
Now, my question to Richard and others: if a 209 is retained, what is a good choice, if any, to modify our BPs or replace our BPs that would be of benefit over good ventliners or bushings?
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Post by deadeer on Dec 15, 2017 21:28:08 GMT -5
If I had the money, I would be set up with a modern Hankins special, but that aint ever gonna happen on a one income family.
Yes, the less modern smokeless guns can still do their thing. I have zero complaints, especially since building the two I have by myself. They have killed truckloads of deer in about 8-9yrs.
My state of IN has went to hpr, and as fun as those are, I could easily go back to smokeless mz only and never complain. Have considered selling off a few to fund a higher end mz to satisfy my craving.
Time will tell.
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Post by jims on Dec 16, 2017 8:49:05 GMT -5
More States are permitting some type of centerfire usage for deer, in the highly populated States it might be a form of a straight wall cartridge. With that I see less use of muzzleloaders. Those that use them tend to be inlines of some type with Pyrodex or BlackHorn or one of the substitutes. Mostly .50s. Real black powder is fairly rare in my area. Then there are the smokeless MLs. That is a small percentage IMO. Then there is the advanced smokeless speciality guns if you will. Although excellent they do cost a bit, maybe more than some are willing to pay or have. I enjoy following all the developments in this area on several sites but this is a niche number in my opinion. I enjoy all the testing, experimentation and thought that these new designs have brought. I may well someday upgrade my smokeless MLS but the average guy will not buy in great quantities.
I believe with risk of double loads etc. any major firearm manufacturer will not offer a smokeless ML in the future. To little of market and profit margin compared to the down side risk of liability. One must load/reload a smokeless ML. Can have the wrong powder or double load. Many do not reload centerfire so less risk there and except in a handgun or some shotguns generally there is not enough case capacity to double load although wrong powder usage could still be bad. As centerfires have some double usages and user friendly they will dominate sales over muzzleloaders.
In a nushell I am glad innovation continues and we have excellent individuals pushing the envelope but I am in a state where I really can more than adequately function with what I have now, when regular guys see some of the bullets being used, sabotless etc. they are still amazed or think it should be outlawed. Have convinced them otherwise, kind of like cross bows vs. other bow arguments. Still one shot within a certain range with accuracy paramount and the correct projectile no matter bullet or blade.
Just my ramblings.
Going out later this afternoon, I have a daughter just getting into deer hunting and she hopes to get her first deer later today. As a side note I have explained muzzleloading to them and they enjoy going but if they could shoot a centerfire they would more quickly do that if I was not around as they would feel more comfortable with that.
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Post by sew on Dec 16, 2017 8:49:07 GMT -5
The picture below reminds me of one of the most frustrating experiences with a 200 SST. 2010, my son hunting in a virtual bramble jungle. Max shot distance was likely 60-70yds. I was hunting about 1/2 mile away. I heard a shot from his direction and wIthin 30 sec I receive a text picture of a nice, but not huge buck. I sent him a reprimanding text: reload! Within 30 secs I hear another shot. Unknown to me, the first deer ran straight to his stand and died at its base. He was actually still in his stand when he took the picture. Back to that other shot, he shot his 2nd deer at the same place he shot the 1st deer 1 minute earlier. 45 PacNor’d barrel, 10ML2, 12/52 VV110/2015, 200SST (Too fast!). Mid chest hit, no exit, deer took off, 5 hours later, I eventually found it. Virtually no blood. Bullet pushed well beyond its design range. 195B would have been fine at that speed. 2 large bucks, no blood. Incidentally, the deer was scored 3 times by B&C scorers: 169 5/8, 169 7/8, 169 6/8.  |
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Post by sew on Dec 16, 2017 8:52:25 GMT -5
The first deer.  |
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Post by deadeer on Dec 16, 2017 10:45:13 GMT -5
Jims, our thoughts about mirror each others. I couldnt have such any of tht better myself...
Sew, one thing has always been on my mind about all the sst issues. The newer versions are the ftx with softer tip. The older versions all have the solid tip. Is this the difference? Way more complaints of bullets issues from years ago in my opinion! I have never had a problem with the soft tips, and I reload for a bunch of buddies. Using them in 44mag, 445 supermag, 454 casull, 460sw, 40 & 45 cal in mz. The 300sst has never given us a problem, no matter the speed. I bought bags of 250ct blems of 200 & 250gr shockwaves, so will be using them for years to come. As we have recently seen, slowing them down to 2400fps may be the trick.
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Post by jims on Dec 16, 2017 11:17:36 GMT -5
Nice bucks. Consistent scoring. Bullets over the years really have gotten some better for the most part IMO. Technology can be a good thing in the right instances.
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Post by sew on Dec 16, 2017 11:40:03 GMT -5
There’s a rule that seems to hold true, “don’t buy an extreme amount of anything, it’ll be excelled, or superseded before long”. As I’m down to maybe 1,500-2,000 200 SST blems from about 10 years ago, I painfully am aware that maybe I went overboard.
Current plan is to get an optimum bullet (? 225,250 Fury, 240 CEB or 225 Pittman) for my 40 and shoot my 200SSTs in all my 45s, @ <2400, except for 1 that will have 195Bs at 2770’/sec.
If the 200 FTXs shoot exactly the same as the originals, then higher velocities for hunting and the originals for range work. With a 3 deer limit and most killed with xbow, that 1 or 2 FTXs shot a year shouldn’t break the bank.
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Post by dennis on Dec 16, 2017 20:02:48 GMT -5
There’s a rule that seems to hold true, “don’t buy an extreme amount of anything, it’ll be excelled, or superseded before long”. As I’m down to maybe 1,500-2,000 200 SST blems from about 10 years ago, I painfully am aware that maybe I went overboard. Current plan is to get an optimum bullet (? 225,250 Fury, 240 CEB or 225 Pittman) for my 40 and shoot my 200SSTs in all my 45s, @ <2400, except for 1 that will have 195Bs at 2770’/sec. If the 200 FTXs shoot exactly the same as the originals, then higher velocities for hunting and the originals for range work. With a 3 deer limit and most killed with xbow, that 1 or 2 FTXs shot a year shouldn’t break the bank. You would like the performance on deer of the .40 Fury. Good blood trail on all shots except one which was quartering away at 180yds and no exit, with a mv of around 2450fps but 2 were drt and the other 3 of the 5 I shot with that bullet only ran max 50yds. I shot those 5 deer in Tenn. this season. |
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Post by sew on Dec 16, 2017 20:09:24 GMT -5
Dennis, what barrel, twist rate, etc?
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Post by jims on Dec 17, 2017 10:48:37 GMT -5
I gave this info in another posting but it fits here also. My oldest daughter got her first deer late yesterday. A big doe at 149 yards. She used the 200 SSTs with 10 grains of 4759 and 50 of 4198. The shot took out part of the lower heart, exit hole was 1 1/2 inches. Heavy blood trail. Ran hard for nearly 50 yards. Bullet worked well. For us we are glad we have a large number of the blem bullets, only in appearance, no accuracy or other issues but "always" looking for the ultimate bullet if there is one.
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Post by sew on Dec 17, 2017 18:15:21 GMT -5
Jim,
I think I shoot too big of deer!😊🦌
In our Dec 26-28 season, I’ll try to kill a deer with the 200SST and try to break my string of no passthrus. I’ll go only for lower chest.
Congratulations on your daughter!
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Post by jims on Dec 17, 2017 21:31:13 GMT -5
Thanks and good hunting.
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