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Post by hammer on Jun 7, 2017 19:00:53 GMT -5
Jeff, I always thought everyone that shot in the match had their target results posted on the big board with match results. Am I misunderstanding that? What I'm saying is that you can choose to shoot with everyone during the match, but have the option to not have your target results added to the big board with the match results.
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rob
New Member
Posts: 24
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Post by rob on Jun 7, 2017 19:16:37 GMT -5
Here is a simple way to even the field, keep it fun, and speed things up. Put a bag of corn, dog food or what ever on the benches, as long as they are the same for each shooter. That is the only shooting aid to be used other than elbow pads. Shoot multiple yardages while the shooter is at the bench. Ie 100 and 200, or all 4 yardages. Its only 12 shots. That will free up some time for other shooting styles. A shooter will not feel like he needs to buy $600 plus in benchrest equipment to compete. And will save a lot of time between shooter change. I don't see an way to fairly separate classes. I have SPML's from 8 to 15 pounds and hunt with all of them. My 8 pound hinger is about as accurate as my 15 pound bolt gun. So where do you draw the line for classes? Like Phil said opt out, don't score that target. For the shooters that want to be top dog have them put a Franklin up to have the target scored. Split the Franklins up between the top 3 shooters.
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Post by Hank on Jun 7, 2017 19:34:20 GMT -5
Jeff, I always thought everyone that shot in the match had their target results posted on the big board with match results. Am I misunderstanding that? What I'm saying is that you can choose to shoot with everyone during the match, but have the option to not have your target results added to the big board with the match results. Absolutely, Had anyone ask me to not post their scores I would have been more than happy to not post them, but no one has ever ask me to do that, nor have I ever forced anyone to shoot the match, we have had several shooter come just to shoot for the fun of it and that has always been ok too. We have people come that don't even shoot, and that's ok too. Every shooting sport out there has some type of classes. If you look at archery, there are several classes. It is broken up into youth, women, then into traditional, bow hunter, bow hunter free style, unlimited and so on. Would it be fair for the traditional guy to compete against the guy shooting the unlimited bow. No.. I know people don't like change, they didn't like the LRMP when it came into play, but now its the most copied system going today. Those that hated it now love it. Change can be a good thing if looked at on the positive side instead of the negative. Personally I think classes will help us grow. What if we have a few guys show up some day and are shooting flintlocks, should they be paired against us guys shooting modern smokeless muzzle loaders?
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Post by Hank on Jun 7, 2017 19:43:44 GMT -5
Here is a simple way to even the field, keep it fun, and speed things up. Put a bag of corn, dog food or what ever on the benches, as long as they are the same for each shooter. That is the only shooting aid to be used other than elbow pads. Shoot multiple yardages while the shooter is at the bench. Ie 100 and 200, or all 4 yardages. Its only 12 shots. That will free up some time for other shooting styles. A shooter will not feel like he needs to buy $600 plus in benchrest equipment to compete. And will save a lot of time between shooter change. I don't see an way to fairly separate classes. I have SPML's from 8 to 15 pounds and hunt with all of them. My 8 pound hinger is about as accurate as my 15 pound bolt gun. So where do you draw the line for classes? Like Phil said opt out, don't score that target. For the shooters that want to be top dog have them put a Franklin up to have the target scored. Split the Franklins up between the top 3 shooters. For one,,, most shooters have hundreds of dollars into their shooting equipment. Tell them they can't use it and see how many shooters come to the shoot. Second, time is of the essence during the match. we don't have enough targets to have them set up at multiple yardages at the same time. Doing it this way would only slow down the shooting. Third, we ain't putting up no Franklins at the shoot. We are not trying to re-format the way we do our shoot, the way we score the targets, the way we cook our food or anything else, We are only trying to make a few classes so the guy shooting that 8 pound hinger feels like he has a chance at winning in his class. Not one single thing will change except we will have a few more winners, what could be bad about that. ?
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Post by hammer on Jun 7, 2017 19:48:12 GMT -5
OK I wasn't aware of that Thanks for letting everybody understand their options.
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Post by motox369 on Jun 7, 2017 20:07:55 GMT -5
Seems pretty simple to me. No one is forced to compete it is an informal shoot and a gathering to learn and have fun. That being said those who want to compete should have classes to subdivide them. So I vote yes for the classes.
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Post by orion2000 on Jun 7, 2017 20:43:06 GMT -5
I think 3 simple classes might be workable and interesting: (1) An ultimate competition class, (2) A sportsman class, and (3) A "fun" class. (1) Ultimate competition class would unlimited everything. More focused on score and agg. (2) Sportsman class would be limited weight (XX Lbs ). Incorporate position shooting from field positions. Maybe some steel targets at unknown distances with "hit or miss" scoring. (3) For the fun class think of how to engage younger shooters and women shooters. Beside targets, some positional shooting, steel targets, water jugs with colored water, maybe a Tannerite target per junior shooter ? Things to make it interesting for younger shooters. JMO...
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Post by rojo23 on Jun 7, 2017 20:46:58 GMT -5
My thoughts are the way the shoot is set up now it would be easy to have different classes. So 5 shooters shoot at a time, so 5 in group A shoots their shoots, then if there are more in that class then they continue to shoot that class until all shooters have gone. Then the same thing for class b, class c etc.
The shoot I attended there were guys shooting on the side throughout the shoot that we not "competing". This was fun because this is when everyone shoot other guy's guns. I spent the down time talking and learning new tricks.
I built my muzzleloader solely to hunt, we cannot rifle hunt in my county. My muzzleloader has a boyd thumbhole stock and a Nikon 4-16 scope very stock and nothing fancy. The 100 yard group I shoot at the 2nd challenge measured .404" so not too bad. After 100 I was at a big disadvantage compared to the guys with the 20+ power scopes and benchrest style stocks. I didn't come to the shoot to win, but it is a lot more fun being at the top of the pack versus the bottom.
Being in class really doesn't change anything except the order you will shoot, and who will be sitting at the next bench. You will still get to shoot your shoots, and have the same amount of fun. After every class has shoot then your could have a shoot off for an overall winner. To me you are just comparing apples to apples.
just my thoughts
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Post by outcast on Jun 7, 2017 20:57:32 GMT -5
Hope everyone is doing well! Been a while since I have posted, been overwhelmed with work! Tried to make the last shoot, the first one I attended left some good memories and a very good lesson learned. After all the camaraderie is what it is all about, for me anyways. I met great people, made friends, and learned a great deal - not to mention the great food! One great experience for sure!
I am for the idea of classes, whether it passes or not will not detour me from going. Classes really fairs up the playing field, you can always have an open class. If the guy shooting pron shoots better than someone with a high end rest in the open class so be it, or vice a versa. It well level the playing field and will also take more time for the event that is for sure. The last one I attended went until dark.
All in all one can still shoot for the hell of it and not compete. I really do not see people not attending because of this, after all you can pick which class you want to compete in.
"Aim small miss small and don't let the smoke get in the way!"
Wayne
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Post by hillbill on Jun 8, 2017 3:36:09 GMT -5
good to hear from you Wayne, you need to make the trip again in August!
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Post by deadeye on Jun 8, 2017 7:36:19 GMT -5
3 classes & opt out option are not going to hurt a thing imo.
now if we can get all 40 voters to the shoot!
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Jun 8, 2017 8:48:33 GMT -5
]now if we can get all 40 voters to the shoot![/p][/quote]
Very good point Deadeye
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Post by dennis on Jun 8, 2017 8:53:58 GMT -5
It's all about fun, learning , friendship, good eats, the competition pales to the rest IMO. If I am able to be there I will, even if it's just with a sling shot.
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Post by hillbill on Jun 8, 2017 9:02:55 GMT -5
If you can come Dennis i will bring a pea shooter for you and supply the powder and bullets, can't beat that deal..
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Post by Richard on Jun 8, 2017 20:23:08 GMT -5
The way this would work (at least in my opinion) is everyone shoots together.........just as we always did. When you sign up, you will be given a competitor number which will go in the upper corner of your four targets {100, 200, 300 and 400 yards} Your class will also be listed on your target and on the tote board i.e. BR, H (hunter) TB (top break) or what designations are decided on. You might shooting a top break in say......relay 1 (along with four other shooters - we have five benches) bench #3 -- right next to Deadeye shooting BR class. When we tally up the results we will just pick and group the results according to class. Simple?
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Post by 10gaauto on Jun 11, 2017 21:31:39 GMT -5
IMHO classes would show a lot to those interested. Even more I'd like to know more about each gun used by the shooters. Not so much powder/bullet combos but action, stock style, ignition type, builder and modifications etc. The 3 classes would certainly show what different guns and shooters can do. 1. Open challenge 2. Sportsman or Hunter class = caliber, weight and glass power restrictions, plus A and B divisions for hinger/dropblock and bolter class. 3. A fun class for sure, especially for novice, apprentice and new shooter/hunters.
I am certainly against any requirement of any "Franklins" being necessary to compete to provide prize moneys. Personal side bets (Washingtons) on gongs etc Ok but not required.
I have attended challenge in past but will miss fall shoot. Next year I'll be there regardless of classes or no.
These are my opinions and certainly others will differ. 10
And as usual Richard seems to have a handle on how to do it in the above post.
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Post by Richard on Jun 17, 2017 20:15:22 GMT -5
10ga. auto.............Here is what an equipment list looks like for one of our 600 yard matches........as a matter of fact, in ALL IBS registered matches, everyone has to fill out an equipment list and it is kept on record along with the scores. It would be easy enough to have members fill out a pre printed form (very short with those categories that apply to muzzle loading and then a list can be generated and put on the forum so everyone can see what each other is shooting?) But here again, some might think it is getting too complicated? I JUST THROW THIS STUFF OUT TO BE KICKED AROUND:)
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Jun 22, 2017 19:40:39 GMT -5
Quote from above. " Most shooter's have hundreds of dollars in their shooting equipment. Tell them they cant use it and see how many shooters come to the shoot" Drop
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Post by markb317 on Jun 26, 2017 16:43:21 GMT -5
Just my opinion, I think a Hunter Class shot of of a bipod or sand bag and some type of non-benchrest style rear bag would be a good class. I would think that this type of class would be more realistic for guys that move around to different areas where they can't carry bench rest style rest into. Limit guns to a certain weight, but not to low that guys with ml set up for beanfield style rifles can shoot and no limit on optics. i1372.photobucket.com/albums/ag329/markb317/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20161125_124450283_HDR_zpswwyrbias.jpgThis is the gun I hunt with for all my deer season. I carry it for woods hunting and open fields, it weights in at about 17#.
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Post by Hank on Jun 26, 2017 18:31:17 GMT -5
Mark.
I think you are right on the hunter class. We will be having some class structure for the next Kentucky Challenge and we will decide at this next shoot what is the weight limit of the hunter class. It is hard for me to decide a weight limit with out seeing the rifles, so at the next shoot, we as a group will decide where to draw the line. I know what a hunting rifle is and I have been know to pack a pretty heavy rifle in the woods only to shoot a deer at 40 yards (bow range) so this next fall shoot we will discuss as a group and come up with some weight restrictions and requirements to meet the hunter class. As for now all others will be in the break open class or the unlimited class. These three classes will get us started for the next shoot. I think this should make everyone happy and give them a place to be.
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