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N120
Mar 1, 2017 14:21:50 GMT -5
Post by schunter on Mar 1, 2017 14:21:50 GMT -5
Why is it so hard to find other than buying online? My local gun store has a great supply of the VV powders but never any N120... I asked why yesterday when I was there and the guy said Oh all powder makers have a powder that is hard to get. Is this the case or was he just trying to get rid of me?
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N120
Mar 1, 2017 14:40:07 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by jle300 on Mar 1, 2017 14:40:07 GMT -5
Powder Valley currently has it available for online ordering. Just go to their website. You will have to pay hazmat for shipping but their prices are usually good. I also have about 9#s too much of it if they sell out. I bought a bunch when it was near impossible to find a couple years ago for my Savage 10ml2 but have switched to a different muzzleloader.
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Post by 12ptdroptine on Mar 1, 2017 16:25:56 GMT -5
I wont develope an appetite for anything that isnt readily available Drop
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N120
Mar 1, 2017 17:27:39 GMT -5
Post by dennis on Mar 1, 2017 17:27:39 GMT -5
I have never in 8yrs seen vv n120 in a cabelas or any of the gun shops that carry reload supplies here in Ohio. And have never seen a Barnes original bullet either. Wonder why some areas get what they want and others don't. I have found other powders and bullets that shoot well for me so I guess it is hard to miss something that you have never tried.
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N120
Mar 1, 2017 17:51:50 GMT -5
Post by doeslayer on Mar 1, 2017 17:51:50 GMT -5
Can't tell you why. I just put together a decent order and buy online. I can get what I want and the hazmat fee isn't to big a deal ordering once in a blue moon with a decent size order. Shops around here have a few basic powders but not many of the different powders I use. I like small gun shops but they don't carry much of what I want.
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Post by Foxgrape on Mar 1, 2017 17:59:37 GMT -5
Funny this topic has come up here. I know VV N-120 is had to find. That's why when a month or so ago I saw 4 jugs of N120 at Greentop (just off I-95 north of Richmond, VA)I posted the info on Doug's. If you are ever running I-95, Greentop is a great pit stop. You can see it from I-95.
Years ago they were a classic overstuffed "Mom and Pop" gun/fish shop (think 8 pounds in 5 pound bag). Great "good ol' boy" staff. Then, several years ago BOTH GANDER MOUNTAIN AND BASS PRO built big box stores within a mile or two of their small shop. Ironically a few years after that, Gander MT moved out and somehow Greentop got their building. Now think the same 8 pounds, but in a 25 pound bag. It was almost comical to see their small inventory rattling around in that huge store!!!
Over time they have built up a great inventory of long and hand guns, both new and used. Huge powder and reload component department. (Full line of MEC pieces/parts etc). Same "good ol' boy" staff (and the Bass Pro is still there, so it is the perfect mid-way pit stop for my run from MD (at PA line) to Raleigh area to see daughter's family with 4 grand-kids.)
And as an added bonus they give a discount to active and retired Military.
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N120
Mar 1, 2017 18:09:04 GMT -5
Post by GMB54-120 on Mar 1, 2017 18:09:04 GMT -5
There were only a handful of VV importers/distributors and Hodgdon was one of them. Its directly competed with 4198 so IMR/Hodgdon would not distribute it. Kaltron is basically out of the picture now so that only leaves small outfits and possibly Lapua.
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N120
Mar 1, 2017 20:14:55 GMT -5
Post by schunter on Mar 1, 2017 20:14:55 GMT -5
I wont develope an appetite for anything that isnt readily available Drop I agree Russ. I am trying to develope a very specific load in a 45. I have over 100 of the 200 grain Lehigh Bloodlines that I want to try on deer. I tried a 10/50 duplex of 4759/4198 and the Harvester lite blue sabot but it blew the sabots. May just try a straight load of 4198. Have heard N120 is easy on sabots.
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N120
Mar 1, 2017 20:54:25 GMT -5
Post by dennis on Mar 1, 2017 20:54:25 GMT -5
I wont develope an appetite for anything that isnt readily available Drop I agree Russ. I am trying to develope a very specific load in a 45. I have over 100 of the 200 grain Lehigh Bloodlines that I want to try on deer. I tried a 10/50 duplex of 4759/4198 and the Harvester lite blue sabot but it blew the sabots. May just try a straight load of 4198. Have heard N120 is easy on sabots. Reloader 7 is easy on sabots also. I use it in my 50cal because of blowing sabots with vv n110 and the 4198 powders, for some reason the reloader 7 doesn't blow the sabots. I have not blown any sabots yet with h4198 in my apex conversion up to 60gr with hlb and 200sst.
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N120
Mar 2, 2017 7:44:19 GMT -5
Post by schunter on Mar 2, 2017 7:44:19 GMT -5
I agree Russ. I am trying to develope a very specific load in a 45. I have over 100 of the 200 grain Lehigh Bloodlines that I want to try on deer. I tried a 10/50 duplex of 4759/4198 and the Harvester lite blue sabot but it blew the sabots. May just try a straight load of 4198. Have heard N120 is easy on sabots. Reloader 7 is easy on sabots also. I use it in my 50cal because of blowing sabots with vv n110 and the 4198 powders, for some reason the reloader 7 doesn't blow the sabots. I have not blown any sabots yet with h4198 in my apex conversion up to 60gr with hlb and 200sst. Thanks for the info Dennis.....
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N120
Mar 2, 2017 9:48:05 GMT -5
Post by GMB54-120 on Mar 2, 2017 9:48:05 GMT -5
Reloder7 is probably the most sabot friendly powder ive seen. Its not very clean though so the occasional light swabbing might be needed. My Pacnor is tight enough i could feel the difference after the Re7 fouling. N120 you could shoot all day and never feel a difference.
In the burn rate charts, N120 is slightly faster than 4198 and Reloder7 is slightly slower. This "burn rate" doesn't quite add up if you look at sabot load speeds in a 45cal with a 200gr bullet. Ive used upto 60gr of N120 and 63gr of Reloder7 with 200gr bullets in sabots. I have not blown a sabot yet. Ive read about quite a few people blowing sabots with as little as 60gr of 4198 and many more at around 62gr.
IMO if the goal is to shoot the Bloodlines or brass Lehighs, try about 56gr of N120 or Reloder7 for starters. I dont remember blowing any sabots with this load but i ran out of the 200gr bullets and only had a few of the 230gr prototype to try.
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N120
Mar 2, 2017 10:28:52 GMT -5
Post by Richard on Mar 2, 2017 10:28:52 GMT -5
For me on Tuesday, I noticed a slight bit more resistance when using N-120 as compared to H-4198 and you can definitely see from my report that H-4198 is slower than N-120 and IMR 4198 a tad slower than H4198. And yes, Re-7 was slower as I recall from last weeks testing and more dirty (just by feel of the bullet going down the bore) By and large with all the testing of various powders and combinations if only ONE powder was available to me? It would be Hodgedon's 4198 without question. N-120 is way over rated and and more expensive than its worth.
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N120
Mar 2, 2017 10:42:16 GMT -5
Post by 10gaauto on Mar 2, 2017 10:42:16 GMT -5
Dittos to foxgrape on the Greentop shopping. Anybody traveling 95 through the Richmond VA area should give it a try. Wanted some of the vv120 but it was gone when I got by there. I have been getting stuff there since the early 1970s. They have a good inventory of long and hand guns, ML not so much, and the best selection of shooting stuff in a brick and mortar store. They do not carry black powder but have everything else. There is Bass Pro near by and they have more good fishing stuff but GT has live bait, from eels to crickets to minnows and grubs and spikes. The Cabelas across town is nice and best is you can order from catalog online etc... and then pick up in store no shipping. For hands on purchase of shooting stuff GT is my 1st choice.
And yes SC, straight 4198 is easier on sabots then with that 4759 booster and I am finding that straight re7 is good too. I found a sweet spot with 55 grains of re7 and 200 SST in SBH in 45 I hunted this year. I'm also finding the re7 shines in my 50 ML2s. 10
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N120
Mar 2, 2017 11:08:01 GMT -5
Post by GMB54-120 on Mar 2, 2017 11:08:01 GMT -5
Re7 for the money and sabot use its hard to beat especially if you have both a 45cal and a 50cal to feed. Years ago there was a thread about psi per fps and it did very well. Im not fond of it at all though for sabotless. 4198 really shines for sabotless when you consider availability. I love N120 but i dont care for the higher pressures sabotless. I only use it for sabots.
When i was buying up N120 i got it for about $32/lb so at that time its was a good option. Glad i stocked up when i did.
Richard,
Any chance the next time out you could try a very simple load of 55gr N120 and a 300gr or 275gr. IIRC that is supposed to be right around 2300fps and 44Kpsi. Im interested in the spread you get.
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N120
Mar 2, 2017 12:52:28 GMT -5
Post by schunter on Mar 2, 2017 12:52:28 GMT -5
Great information guys. The gun shoots great sabotless but I really want to try the 200 grain Lehigh on deer. I will try the straight load of 4198 first and if it is still a no go I will pick up some Re 7.
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N120
Mar 2, 2017 13:01:20 GMT -5
Post by schunter on Mar 2, 2017 13:01:20 GMT -5
I agree Russ. I am trying to develope a very specific load in a 45. I have over 100 of the 200 grain Lehigh Bloodlines that I want to try on deer. I tried a 10/50 duplex of 4759/4198 and the Harvester lite blue sabot but it blew the sabots. May just try a straight load of 4198. Have heard N120 is easy on sabots. Reloader 7 is easy on sabots also. I use it in my 50cal because of blowing sabots with vv n110 and the 4198 powders, for some reason the reloader 7 doesn't blow the sabots. I have not blown any sabots yet with h4198 in my apex conversion up to 60gr with hlb and 200sst. Does your Apex conversion have a Brux barrel?
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N120
Mar 2, 2017 13:15:48 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by 12ptdroptine on Mar 2, 2017 13:15:48 GMT -5
Great information guys. The gun shoots great sabotless but I really want to try the 200 grain Lehigh on deer. I will try the straight load of 4198 first and if it is still a no go I will pick up some Re 7. I cant coment on the Lehigh. But I have used another 200gn bullet with a LBH and 56 gn.of H4198. From 40 to 210 yds. Crazy accurate and deadly in my Encore/Pacnor. I do not know the speed but it only drops about 5 inches from 100 to 200 Drop
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N120
Mar 2, 2017 14:44:56 GMT -5
Post by dennis on Mar 2, 2017 14:44:56 GMT -5
Reloader 7 is easy on sabots also. I use it in my 50cal because of blowing sabots with vv n110 and the 4198 powders, for some reason the reloader 7 doesn't blow the sabots. I have not blown any sabots yet with h4198 in my apex conversion up to 60gr with hlb and 200sst. Does your Apex conversion have a Brux barrel? No, it is the factory 45-70 bergara 25" barrel with HIS 209 bp and .035 bushing it cronos at 2420fps with 56gr h4198 and about 3 1/2" drop at 200yds. it will shoot under 1"" all day long. Again using the harverster light blue with 200sst or tc shockwave. I am lightly knurling the bullets and still 1 hand loading pressure. If you have a bergara ss barrel it ought to like this load. I got this load off of this board from another members post and I know others are using the same. I am going to try the reloader 7 in the apex also probably about 60-62gr maybe a little more.
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N120
Mar 3, 2017 15:42:01 GMT -5
Post by Richard on Mar 3, 2017 15:42:01 GMT -5
GMB.........I will but with my current leg problem I am not sure I will get to the range this week. I have a qualification I have to do every year for my retired LEO Federal carry permit and it is scheduled for 6:00 Tuesday night. If I got to the range and have a leg problem it might screw up the night shoot and this is only run once a year so I can't miss it. I will keep it in mind for the future.! I would bet it comes in around 2300 fps. The thing is, if the pressure is too low, it might not obturate the bullet and then you have lost accuracy. Shooting with sabots, this is not a problem.........sabot less? Now full formed sabot less might be a different story!
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N120
Mar 3, 2017 15:54:02 GMT -5
Post by GMB54-120 on Mar 3, 2017 15:54:02 GMT -5
Thank you and no hurry.
The old traces say its in the 44Kpsi range which is about max i care to shoot in a small shank Savage. Ive shot it before with either a 275 or 300 but need to dig up my notes so i can compare them. Its been quite some time since i tried it and i no longer have a place to setup my chrono. Ive got a new place lined up but no idea when its gunna happen.
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