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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2016 20:17:09 GMT -5
A couple of us have been shooting 105 gr of 3031 with a 275 Accumax and no wad clocking 3200fps plus.
No pressure signs and excellent accuracy. Shot it last week in the 20's but didn't take a chrono.
The 275gr at 3200 is flatter shooting and doesn't give up anything to the 300gr projectile at 2900fps until after 400 yards, where it loses a few ftlb's of force and after 650 yards where it loses the fps race. Even at 800 yards, the 275 is flatter shooting. Of course, I don't have any intention of killing beyond 500 yards anyway.
I'm not really concerned about the amount of powder burned. At two dollars per projectile, powder is really not a big deal.I would wager that Cyclops is burning quite a bit more than 150gr of an even slower powder.
Thanks Elkman for your report. Keep it up! BTW, H322 might be the one you are after.
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Post by doug136 on Dec 19, 2016 20:27:48 GMT -5
I am a huge believer in HIS Ignition system ! But I do have a few 209 guns . Could Elkman , Richard or someone show some pictures of a 209 primer that is showing excessive pressure . I have had primers that I have had to dry fire in my Savage and Knights in order to get the primers out . My Savage was mainly because my bushing was shot out . I'm just curious what a primer looks like with excessive pressure
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Post by doug136 on Dec 19, 2016 20:28:29 GMT -5
Thanks guys
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2016 20:31:13 GMT -5
Typically, if only a dry fire is needed to remove the primer from the bolt, then the primer is pushed partially out of the primer cup. This can be resolved with a primer shelf in the plug that does not allow excessive primer headspace. Doug, what you want to see is a bulged primer.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2016 20:52:16 GMT -5
These loads are safe in the muzzleloaders I build. You should test your gun over a chronograph and work up slowing.
View Attachment Great post Elkman! Could you do a detailed write up on your builds? I'm interested in how you get single powder loads to ignite with 209. Along with any other loads your shooting and getting ignition with single loads. Thanks |
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Post by outlaw76 on Dec 19, 2016 21:06:55 GMT -5
Scat what set do you have for gun? Barrel length and so on. Do you find that Imr 3031 after sitting for a few days gets a little build up in barrel like Imr 4198 or does it burn really clean.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 19, 2016 21:31:42 GMT -5
Scat what set do you have for gun? Barrel length and so on. Do you find that Imr 3031 after sitting for a few days gets a little build up in barrel like Imr 4198 or does it burn really clean. 27" bbl, HIS ignition, Hankins brake. I have found that 3031 does not have as much hard buildup in the barrel as 4198. The first projectile loaded after sitting for a period of time is a little tighter than one loaded after firing. Still yet, it is not hard fouled to the extent 4198 does. |
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Post by elkman1310 on Dec 19, 2016 22:44:18 GMT -5
The breech plug I make is very similar to the Arrowhead plug in AOL. I use a .030 bushing I buy from Luke. I take the time to cut my primer pockets to the correct depth for the bolt nose I make and use.They don't leak or bulge and they don't stick on the bolt face. A 209 ignition is still the best way to go when it is down right!
I have never ever had ignition problems period. That is why I can't understand why anyone has to resort to duplexing powder charges. All the guns I build shoot lights out with straight powder charges of
IMR 4198. I just starting playing around with IMR 3031 because my goal is to shoot on paper at 1,000 yards not to hunt with at that distance I am curious to see what kind of accuracy I can't get. But the big problem even with Kyle's new bullet leaving at 3,000 fps it will hit a wall before 900 yards you need to stay above 1,400 fps and I don't believe it is possible with a 325gr flat base bullet.
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Post by thunder53 on Dec 20, 2016 0:19:18 GMT -5
When you guys are shooting 85-95 gr of 3031 and 275 gr bullets, what do you think you are seeing for pressures??
What's the recoil like at those levels??
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Post by linebaugh on Dec 20, 2016 8:48:08 GMT -5
I am shooting 95gr over a 275 MH right now and would be surprised if I am hitting 40k. That's kind of the upshot of 3031. Either less pressure at same velocity as 4198 or more velocity at the same pressure as 4198.
Recoil is no worse than 4198.
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Post by elkman1310 on Dec 20, 2016 9:22:25 GMT -5
I would agree about the recoil level. The gun I used for this test weighs 15lbs it has a muzzle brake and is in a benchrest stock so I didn't see any real change going from the 300gr to the 325gr with 96grs of IMR 3031.
I my hunting rifle which weighs 11lbs and has a muzzle brake I only shot 300gr bullets. up to 96grs recoil was no worse than IMR 4198 I would say it is more of a big push not a sharp jump like IMR 4198
when I went to 97,98,99 it got noticeable more at 99gr it weight 3010fps but accuracy fell off after 97grs so I settled on 96grs and a solid average velocity of 2950fps from this Shilen barrel.
Pressure wise I can't say for certain. I don't have a strain gauge to do a trace test. I believe it would be below 50K.
Today I am going to run a new test with 10X. out of my test gun that I used for this IMR 3031 test. I will use Federal 209A primers and what I will be looking for on the primer cup is any crater marks or flattening of the primer cup. Also I will measure the unsupported section of the primer which lies between the bolt nose and the end of the breech plug. If I get expansion on the primer it will show up there because it is the same as the back end of a rifle case sticking out of a chamber. I will post my findings
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Post by deadeye on Dec 20, 2016 9:40:55 GMT -5
doug-here is one example of a 209 pressured
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Post by jimbob on Dec 20, 2016 10:06:54 GMT -5
Thanks for report elkman
I have a short barrel gun in the works now
this info will be very useful for me
Thanks again
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Post by schunter on Dec 20, 2016 10:30:27 GMT -5
Thanks for the testing and report. Great information!
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Post by thunder53 on Dec 20, 2016 10:33:00 GMT -5
Thanks for report elkman I have a short barrel gun in the works now this info will be very useful for me Thanks again X2. That's the kind of info I was looking for Linebaugh & Elkman!!! THANKS! |
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Post by elkman1310 on Dec 20, 2016 10:38:03 GMT -5
Our those Win 209 primers with a step on the body of the primer or are they Federal 209A primers?
The pictures of the two primers show that they have bulged in the area that I want to measure. But be aware that those primers can also bulge like that from a breech plug that has to much bevel on the mouth of the primer pocket and also it appears that you have to much unsupported primer between your bolt face and your primer pocket on your breech plug. You can get a false reading if you have any of those conditions.
At any rate if your primers look like that you better back off on the powder charge!
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Post by deadeye on Dec 20, 2016 12:51:13 GMT -5
209a. Iirc n120 as powder with 325mh pressure probably in 52-55k range./// pockets seemed tight but I have since advanced to the HIS & no longer use this old type system.
10x-- with 325 past experience IIRC- not satisfied with initial fps results so took this no further .... fwiw
imo- for the 325gn class bullets 3031 & h322 is where its at. |
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Post by schunter on Dec 20, 2016 12:54:52 GMT -5
Elkman are you loading with the magnetospeed on your barrel or removing it each time you load? Also do you have less unsupported primer using your breech plug and bolt nose kit vs. Lukes plug and bolt nose kit?
Thanks,
Scott
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Post by elkman1310 on Dec 20, 2016 15:50:05 GMT -5
No I take the darn thing off every time. Once it is setup it goes fairly quickly but it would be nice to load it with it on. I don't like bending the arm so I take it off.
I have more supported primer than Luke has. Take a look at the pictures I posted with the 10X test is shows how my primers look after firing.
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Post by doug136 on Dec 20, 2016 18:40:57 GMT -5
Thanks guys
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