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Post by keith on Aug 12, 2015 19:29:06 GMT -5
How accurate have your Magneto-Speed velocities been? A buddy of mine who is one of the best Palma shooters in the country says they are very accurate. I've had decent luck using them but used one with a suppressor this week and had an issue. The chrono said I was at 2608fps with an SD of 10fps. When I trued my drops at 800m with a known BC bullet (accurate within 1% per Applied Ballistics ) my ballistic solver said my velocity was 2671fps given my actual drops.
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Post by Hank on Aug 12, 2015 20:08:36 GMT -5
Keith..
That's only a difference of 63 feet.. My guess is the magneto speed is the more accurate tool.. Ballistic software programs in my limited use of them only get you close and there's nothing like really shooting the loads or bullets to confirm.. At 63 feet that's only a .2415% discrepancy if I figured correctly so I think they are both pretty accurate...
I just bought a magneto speed,, and haven't used it yet.. Maybe this weekend at the shoot I will get it out and see how it works for me.. I hope it's more accurate than my old old old crony
Jeff..
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Post by keith on Aug 12, 2015 20:20:33 GMT -5
Yes, it is only 63fps but at 700m it was almost 2MOA or 14" difference. 700m ended up being the approximate true range given speed of sound plus air temp to get transonic flight after chrono velocity and TBH atmosphere. The way these solvers work is you take predicted drop and actual drop and true the algorithm to match drag curves. All of the really good solvers use the Point Mass root and it works really well especially with Doppler RADAR tested BC's. Deterministic variable are accurately calculated with this method; the furthest I have used this is around 2700m with a .50 BMG.
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Post by rojo23 on Aug 12, 2015 20:32:23 GMT -5
I have used a magneto speed one time at a long range class that I took. Setup took about a minute, it was very simple to install. Much easier than a typical chronograph. Best part is once setup you can shoot at different targets without adjusting anything.
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Post by keith on Aug 12, 2015 20:37:49 GMT -5
The reason I'm asking is I have not done a tall target test on this optic so it could be the optic not having accurate adjustments. I can't say for sure so I'm asking how accurate your Magneto-Speed is since I need to be able to provide meaningful feedback about this rifle platform.
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Post by hillbill on Aug 12, 2015 20:55:47 GMT -5
I have never tested mine side by side with another high quality crono but from everything I have read they are as accurate as the best out there. definitely easier to set up and use...
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Post by Hank on Aug 12, 2015 21:01:53 GMT -5
Keith.. I wish I knew as much about all that bullet drop and stuff as you do but where I'm from and limited to a realistic hunting shot of 400 yards or so I have never really needed to be as persist as you will need to be shooting as far as you do.
Now here's a question for you.. How would I test my new magneto speed for accuracy.. I would need to know the exact velocity of a bullet before it is fired a crossed the magneto speed in order to come up with a calculation of if accuracy..
I could test it against my old crony and see what the difference is but that still won't tell me if either one is accurate..
Another thing is the magneto should read faster than a crony 15 feet in front of the muzzle.. How much difference should there be over a 15 feet difference?
Any ideas as to how to test it.
Jeff
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Post by Deleted on Aug 12, 2015 22:54:20 GMT -5
Keith.. I wish I knew as much about all that bullet drop and stuff as you do but where I'm from and limited to a realistic hunting shot of 400 yards or so I have never really needed to be as persist as you will need to be shooting as far as you do. Now here's a question for you.. How would I test my new magneto speed for accuracy.. I would need to know the exact velocity of a bullet before it is fired a crossed the magneto speed in order to come up with a calculation of if accuracy.. I could test it against my old crony and see what the difference is but that still won't tell me if either one is accurate.. Another thing is the magneto should read faster than a crony 15 feet in front of the muzzle.. How much difference should there be over a 15 feet difference? Any ideas as to how to test it. Jeff Get ya one of the Lab Radar units. I got an email last Tuesday saying they will be shipping later this year.  This is the manufacturer: www.infinition.com/site/index.php/us/#TCK, LLC the exclusive distributors for LabRadar has recently received the first shipment. These units have all been sold to shooters, forensic centers, law enforcement agencies and writers throughout the U.S. and Canada. Infinition, Inc., the manufacturer of LabRadar anticipates another shipment to TCK in early October. These units will be sold on a first come, first serve basis to individuals and all authorized dealers in the U.S and Canada. You can now complete your pre-order on our website www.buymylabradar.com. Credit cards will not be charged until the units are ready to ship. PayPal payments are charged immediately. Orders from other countries will not be accepted at this time, but sales to other countries will follow soon. Infinition, Inc. will be updating their website www.mylabradar.com soon. All questions should be directed to info@mylabradar.com or 316-866-2525 (8-5, M-F, CST) Best regards, Richard Mouser Exclusive Distributor for LabRadar info@mylabradar.com www.mylabradar.com
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Post by keith on Aug 13, 2015 5:12:37 GMT -5
I don't normally have ranges that go to 2700m. That was a few weeks of my life. The solver was close enough though that wind was all we were dealing with and it took a couple of shots to hit an APC (the size of a medium UHaul truck). My most frequently used ranges go between 600m on the long end to 1000m if I'm on the KD. My very best range is shut down for another five years while they construct an aerial firing point (tell me, how does one construct a firing point for something that flies?) on the adjacent range.
I'm not an engineer so I'm not sure my calibration test for a Magneto-Speed is 100% sound but I think it would work. I would want a precise rifle and an optic I had tested for accuracy with a tall target test. Ideally, you have ammo velocity from a known load and another chrono to compare it to. I would want to use a bullet with a tested BC, not a calculated BC. I would shoot at least 10 rounds to get my AVG MV, ES, and SD. I would take that info and use my solver to shoot to the farthest range I had available to me and I would shoot a minimum of a 10 shot group to get mean center and measure the difference between predicted and actual drop and use my solver to get the MV.
I would think the difference in MV with the Magneto and sky screen would be calculated like any other residual velocity and will be dependent on the bullet. In programs like JBM you can select chrono distance from muzzle and it will give you actual MV in your drop chart. I would think if you did that with your sky screen to the MV you could compare it with your sky screen. Vice versa, measure MV with your Magneto and then plug numbers into your solver and make your distance interval 15 feet and see what it says velocity at chrono should be.
The only other way to calibrate would be having your loads pressure traced by a lab. You can also have bullets (if you make your own) Doppler tested so you have an accurate BC with which to do reverse engineering of your velocities based off of drop. Above all things, believe the bullet because they don't lie.
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Post by Hank on Aug 13, 2015 12:31:55 GMT -5
Keith.
All that is a little over my head. I'm sure it would probably work and if I wanted to I could probably do it,, but for me and my long distance shooting I will just have to except the velocity that the magneto speed gives me...
I'll leave all the complicated computing to the long range snipers since that is what they are trained in and I will keep doing what I do and that is build the rifles that are capable of making those shots as long as the shooter does his part..
Figuring the drop at those ranges is better left to the experts.. Besides if you only shoot one or two rifles and learn it, you can make most shots that will present itself to you with out doing a lot of thinking.. I have my drops figured out to 650 yards for my 300 WSM VARMINTER, 500 yards for my 6MM ACKLEY, 350 for the 45 SPML and I keep my light weight 308 sighted in at 100 yards for woods hunting. If I can't kill it with one of those rifles, I just don't kill it......
We all have our needs and wants... I will let you know how my Magneto Speed works and maybe compare it to Bill's.. He has the same model as I do....
Jeff.
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Post by keith on Aug 13, 2015 20:57:30 GMT -5
I would go about this differently at home but I'm up here testing some stuff and haven't had a chance to test the optic, and won't because engineers and analysts are running the program and I'm just shooting for them, but I was curious about the MV. Another gun chrono'd at 2660fps which is closer to my solver than to the Magneto-Speed. Everyone says the Magneto-Speed is spot on so I'm wondering if it is the optic. Feedback about optics is included in this test but we aren't given free rein to do what we want to evaluate the guns. The Army can make anything not fun.
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Post by deadeye on Aug 13, 2015 23:04:20 GMT -5
correct me if I'm wrong but this is the way I see it. the only way to check a chrono for absolute accuracy is with many multiple chrono's & of each types such as labradar & ms linked in series with the same rifle/load & conditions on that given day & many samples logged from many different conditions etc. can you imagine 50 chrono's all hooked in,then imo you would have to have a different set downrange maybe like 78ft & reverse the order for accuracy & documentations.
with exterior ballistic's will get you close but there is a lot going on from the time a bullet exits the muzzle till its intended target-to me too many factors to judge a chrono from but I understand you can average it out somewhat to a given average among the conditions at that exact firing from the impacts on target & this will change w/ conditions just like the rifle/load itself.
maybe a independent qualified engineer that has a scientific degree with recording bullet speed data would be less troublesome or maybe can point a person to the absolute best most precise unit on the market which I bet the military already use's & has for years.
keith- did I flunk??lol//jmho
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Post by keith on Aug 14, 2015 4:19:51 GMT -5
maybe a independent qualified engineer that has a scientific degree with recording bullet speed data would be less troublesome or maybe can point a person to the absolute best most precise unit on the market which I bet the military already use's & has for years.
Jeff, I think your solution for checking chronos is as good as any I have heard. My solution is for a guy who has limited time and resources. Another possibility I have thought of for the MV discrepancy in my case is the distance the Magneto-Speed spear is from the bullet due to increased diameter.
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Post by deadeye on Aug 14, 2015 6:28:03 GMT -5
keith-interesting testing you are in to. good luck & have fun with it.
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Post by Richard on Sept 3, 2015 10:05:51 GMT -5
Keith.......I have a friend down in Louisianan who is a retired engineer. He shoots both F class, 1K and 600 yard matches. I have shot with him on a number of occasions at 1K Nationals in NC, Ohio and Va. and have traveled with him en route from La. to Quantico. He is genius when it comes to this stuff. He has TWO yes, 2, Oehler Ballistic chronographs set up in his "yard!". One at point blank and the other at 280 yards (the longest distance he could set them. Each unit has their screen set at 24 feet apart. He as permanent poles set in the ground to mount them on. He can measure velocity to within 1 to 2 fps along with getting accurate BC's. I guess that would be the Holy Grail of speed checking!  He had sent me a photo of his set up a number of years back but I can't seem to locate it
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