gendoc
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by gendoc on Nov 15, 2023 14:13:11 GMT -5
this happened to me last year and caused me to miss a fine buck this morning !!!
200gr sst, HLB sabot
53gr I-4198
win 209
my 24" MGM ss conversion barrel is tight, yes...tight, but its performance has taken many whitetail since Bestill
built it for me 3-4 years ago.
i have tried to watch my reference mark on the rod, buts it creeps up on you and then.....brick wall !!!
just thinking, would a veggie wad help this problem ?
or do i need some ignition help with a touch of I-4227 down the hole 1st ?
thanks folks
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Post by buckeye68 on Nov 15, 2023 14:36:15 GMT -5
Have you reached out to your gun builder Bestill yet for some help?
Also, you need to list what your ignition system is.
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gendoc
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by gendoc on Nov 15, 2023 14:56:18 GMT -5
the plug is an arrowhead 209
bestill only converted the barrel,
its just in my old age, when i seat the bullet, i really dont relize how much pressure
i'm applying.
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Post by hillbill on Nov 15, 2023 15:44:34 GMT -5
A wad would likely help with ignition IF you were shooting full bore bullets but with a sabot?
If the sabot fits the bore tightly it should go bang every time.
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gendoc
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by gendoc on Nov 15, 2023 16:02:00 GMT -5
it seems like i have it packed too tight....
2 years ago i experienced this and lightly seated the saboted bullet and it never did it again.
i shot a buck this past monday with the gun and it did perfect. but today, it fired just the primer and not the main propellant.
powder is good climate controlled and sealed correctly, not even a year old.
i'm a handloader for many rifles and handguns and i cast my own slugs too for the past 45 years.
i think i just put too much pressure on seating the bullet.
i'm going to try a veggie wad. i have many, just never used them since i got them from arrowhead
a few years ago.
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Post by lakeplainshunter on Nov 15, 2023 17:35:54 GMT -5
Have you cleaned the flame channel with a drill? Is the orifice in the bushing or vent liner clear? You could also try a hotter Primer like Federal 209A or CCI 209M.
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gendoc
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by gendoc on Nov 15, 2023 17:59:50 GMT -5
Have you cleaned the flame channel with a drill? Is the orifice in the bushing or vent liner clear? You could also try a hotter Primer like Federal 209A or CCI 209M. if i could find a hotter primer like the fed or cci i would, but i cant have them shipped to me. i wil be working on that answer you have, hopefully i find a supplier. thank you !! |
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sqezer
Junior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by sqezer on Nov 15, 2023 18:27:22 GMT -5
Have you cleaned the flame channel with a drill? Is the orifice in the bushing or vent liner clear? You could also try a hotter Primer like Federal 209A or CCI 209M. I believe a 5/32 drill bit is the size for the flame channel, Bestill sales a very nice setup for the job, I bought (3) of them for my family and their Knight ML. |
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Post by dennis on Nov 15, 2023 18:28:29 GMT -5
IMO you answered your own question in regard to packing/compressing the load. Also 209 primers are very dirty and clog flame channels easily. I believe Hank has direct replacement ASG to HIS modules or DI also, just a fyi.
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gendoc
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by gendoc on Nov 15, 2023 19:06:39 GMT -5
yes, i did the HIS follow, but it didnt do like the 209 1st did, easy and simple.
i removed and cleaned the plug as instructed. will try again tomorrow and will have my .457 airgun as backup.
should have had it today !!!
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Post by lakeplainshunter on Nov 15, 2023 20:21:29 GMT -5
I forgot to include are your primers coming out clean or are they black and sooty? This could be another possible cause.
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gendoc
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by gendoc on Nov 16, 2023 5:08:30 GMT -5
primers are clean, does anyone know the drill bit size for the flame channel ?
5/32 has been mentioned, just want to know for sure so i can order a couple.
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Post by dannoboone on Nov 16, 2023 11:32:46 GMT -5
Ten grains of N110 under a slightly reduced main charge in my
209 system has never, ever let me down.
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gendoc
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by gendoc on Nov 16, 2023 14:40:25 GMT -5
i have lil'gun, maybe try your recipe....thanks !!
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Post by sew on Nov 16, 2023 15:52:07 GMT -5
DO NOT USE LTL GUN! There are a number of reasons to not use it.
It’s granulations are of varying sizes. The smaller granules sift to the bottom of the can. When the can gets to 1/4 empty, the granules can be small enough to go through a 0.031” ventliner/bushing. When testing for Savage (10 ML) , I had a module explode because it had partially filled with Ltl Gn . I was injured. The 10ML was destroyed. Needless to say, our Little Gun testing stopped then.
Other reasons. This is a low pressure powder, well below what most of us shoot. At higher pressures the velocities vary significantly (well above design pressure range). It was initially a 410 and large bore revolver powder.
Related to the initial answer/warning, the velocities obtained for the 1st half of the can will vary significantly from the second half.
I wouldn’t shoot Little Gun! Too many good powders to choose from.
Loads to consider that have been used for years: 4759 (discontinued) or VV110(👍) 35-40g, H4198 56-60 or VV110/4198 10/50. These have been safely used for >20 years with 200g bullets in HLBSs.
Win209 and CCIms are almost as hot as the Fed209As but foul the BP much slower. Most likely problem: carboned up BP.
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gendoc
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by gendoc on Nov 16, 2023 16:04:45 GMT -5
thank you for that info, how about i use I-4227 ?
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gendoc
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by gendoc on Nov 16, 2023 16:17:09 GMT -5
5grn maybe to start off with...thank you !!
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Post by sew on Nov 16, 2023 16:23:48 GMT -5
That’s another subject. H-4227 was one of the initial powders that Toby and I tested in the original 10ML. Many of the modules didn’t fit tightly. We encountered many misfires. Savage had already put that powder in the 1st 10ML manual. This caused a lot of initial bad press with the mis-fires. When we went on to testing the 10ML2, H4227 wasn’t even tried due to past bad results. Likely, we should have tried it. It seems to really be virtually ideal for this type of usage. Members of this board have used it with very positive results.
But, it is harder to ignite than VV110 or 4759. How much? Likely harder than H4198 and maybe even IMR 4198. I think your real problem is a dirty BP. H4227 would likely be very good.
However, if there is an ideal medium velocity powder, it’s VV110 for your usage: extreme temp stable, easily ignitable, very clean, moderately fast velocities, easy to meter, very low ESs. It is as good as you can get.
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gendoc
Junior Member
Posts: 66
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Post by gendoc on Nov 16, 2023 17:32:02 GMT -5
i will check into vv110, thank you for your information
and check the cleaning of 209 plug.
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Post by buckeye68 on Nov 16, 2023 18:49:53 GMT -5
If you hunted with your normal setup for 2-3 years without a problem why are you trying to reinvent the wheel?
As SEW and a few other member has recommended that you need to clean your breach plug. If you clean your BP and it fires without an issue problem solved.
If it doesn’t go bang then you need to reevaluate the problem. Just dumping any powder down the tube you have on the shelf is a disaster waiting to happen. Please only change one thing at a time so you know what corrected the true problem. Adding or changing powder is something you need to proceed with caution!
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