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Post by hillbill on Jan 3, 2020 21:33:52 GMT -5
Out of the five or six I shot this year, the one my wife shot, the one my boy shot these are the results
Bill: .40 Anesthesia either 4 or 5? getting old? 303 Accumax Hardcore @ 2900 FPS, none took another step or even moved, total collapse on the spot. shots varied from 65-200+ yards, exits on all but 2 and they were hard quartering shots, massive internal damage and external on some.
Will: same gun and load at 317 yds thru both shoulders, tennis ball size exit, he said it went about 10 feet.
Wife: APex .40 shooting a full formed 273 Hammer at 2700 or so, 154 yds quartering away thru last ribs and out opposite shoulder, immediate collapse, total devastation inside, excellent bullet performance.
Bill: WED night .40 APex same load, 150 yds or so point of shoulder on left side, exit 4 ribs back from shoulder on opposite, never moved, total devastation inside, again excellent performance.
The Accumax Hardcores performed very well considering every one encountered bone on both sides, the Hammer's are great hunting bullets but you must full form.
I have killed a lot of deer with the .45 but I have to say these 40s are like a death ray, maybe I'm just on a lucky streak? (don't think so)
I'm not saying the .40 cal is more lethal than the .45 but man, so far they are like a bolt of lightening, you pull the trigger and it's like you turn the lights off.
Three years now and out of all the deer that rode back home we me I think only three have moved at all after the shot, this year only my son's and it only went a few feet.
year # 1&2 I shot the Hammer's out of both guns, this year I went to the smooth form 303 Accumax in the bolt gun. Very accurate bullet and bad medicine on impact.
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Post by sew on Jan 4, 2020 9:20:12 GMT -5
50 —>45 —>40. .. When the West started being explored and Grizzlies and other threats started being encountered, the common 36 and 38 calibers using RBs just didn’t provide the killing power needed. 45, 50,54,58 quickly became the calibers of choice. Then came cartridge guns. Hawkin and other replicas were the MLers brought into special primitive seasons. 50 cal was the standard, 45s tried and largely rejected and back to 50s.
While 50/54 cal was best for energy/trajectory out to 100 yards for the ballistically disastrous RB, it certainly isn’t the best for conicals. But, we were and are stuck with laws based on RBs.
45 is considered a concession by some DNRs and 40 not even being considered. Smokeless MLing performance isn’t a consideration for caliber legislation and certainly isn’t well received by many. Smokeless is tolerated , at best. This is somewhat parallel to crossbows in archery circles.
I’m convinced that for hunting purposes, for the majority of users using a carry gun, that the 40 has significant ballistic advantages over larger calibers. Ability to obturate is the caliber limitation, I think. For those fortunate enough to hunt where a 40 caliber is legal, I think the 40 is “where it’s at”.
18 years ago, when I started with my 40, bullet selection was close to non-existent. Today is a different story.😊 Thanks Kyle, Dennis and others.
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Post by joelmoney on Jan 5, 2020 17:28:19 GMT -5
Steve I completely agree. Yes 18 years ago a 40 could be made but it wasn’t a viable option. Now with the new bullets it’s a viable option. One that made me realize it was time for me to get into the SML.
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Post by olegburn on Jan 10, 2020 1:30:07 GMT -5
I'm new to posting pics. My first try. Hopefuly it'll work Pictured is of the I believe a doe I shot in 2010. I was sneaking through the bottom of a narrow deep ravine in the rain. With rain I was able to get close to the doe that stood up about 40-50 feet from me and got immediately shot with .50 Savage ML2. It was .458 300 gr. Rem.HP loaded on top of 68 gr. of H4198. On a shot she immediately took off while I stood down there dealing with severe muzzle blast that deflected off the sides of the ravine and into my ears. ( I felt nausea and lightheaded for a minute or two) Once I got on top I found bit of carnage where she stood. Pieces of broken bone, small chunks of soft tissue, hair where in a area few feet across. Then I started seeing blood which was easy to follow. She ran about 50 feet and collapsed. I walked up to her and turned her over. This is what the entrance wound was like. There was nothing left of that shoulder tissue! Cut through the sternum is from field dressing everything else is result of close range high speed bullet hitting hide, bone and soft tissue. Front leg was just barely attached by tendons and bit of hide. It looked like it was hit with 40 mm HE grenade. Not sure I can say it was a failure. But it was not what I want to see in the future. Bone fragments turned into shrapnel and shredded the lungs and probably some arteries. So, it is not hard to believe to me what you describing, sew. If i didn't see it with my own eyes I could maybe be sceptical somewhat. But I did and wanted to contribute to the post.
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floyd
Full Member
Posts: 216
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Post by floyd on Jan 10, 2020 10:28:05 GMT -5
Most of my shots will be up close with a few as far as 300 yds. That is my self imposed limit. Think I am going to a heavier bullet at a lower velocity. Just fast enough to get the job done. I'm a meat hunter anyway. Unbelievable what some of the pictures have revealed.
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Post by sew on Jan 10, 2020 10:56:49 GMT -5
The aspect that is hard to wrap my mind around is that a sleek, AL tipped, jacketed bullet can impact soft tissue 2800+’/sec (that’s skin and rib) and within 2/10,000 of a second , completely disintegrate. Hydrostatic shock is just unimaginable to me. I’m certainly hoping/expecting that the Hard Core AccuMaxes will reduce this some. My experience with monolithic bullets is that they perform well at a very wide range of velocities.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Jan 10, 2020 10:58:53 GMT -5
I'm new to posting pics. My first try. Hopefuly it'll work Pictured is of the I believe a doe I shot in 2010. I was sneaking through the bottom of a narrow deep ravine in the rain. With rain I was able to get close to the doe that stood up about 40-50 feet from me and got immediately shot with .50 Savage ML2. It was .458 300 gr. Rem.HP loaded on top of 68 gr. of H4198. On a shot she immediately took off while I stood down there dealing with severe muzzle blast that deflected off the sides of the ravine and into my ears. ( I felt nausea and lightheaded for a minute or two) Once I got on top I found bit of carnage where she stood. Pieces of broken bone, small chunks of soft tissue, hair where in a area few feet across. Then I started seeing blood which was easy to follow. She ran about 50 feet and collapsed. I walked up to her and turned her over. This is what the entrance wound was like. There was nothing left of that shoulder tissue! Cut through the sternum is from field dressing everything else is result of close range high speed bullet hitting hide, bone and soft tissue. Front leg was just barely attached by tendons and bit of hide. It looked like it was hit with 40 mm HE grenade. Not sure I can say it was a failure. But it was not what I want to see in the future. Bone fragments turned into shrapnel and shredded the lungs and probably some arteries. So, it is not hard to believe to me what you describing, sew. If i didn't see it with my own eyes I could maybe be sceptical somewhat. But I did and wanted to contribute to the post.
What did you imagine was going to happen when you shot a fragile bullet at Ruger #1 45/70 type speeds? You would have been better off with a 300gr XTP MAG with that kind of load behind it. Better yet the Barnes 300gr BO or 325gr FTX if you want to shoot the big boomers in the 50cal MMII.
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Post by dannoboone on Jan 10, 2020 11:50:11 GMT -5
Have a friend who, years ago, shot a buck with a 300gr XTP with some full charge load out of his smoker 209x50. The shot was a little further back than Olegburn's but the damage was very similar...no exit. He has used Barnes 290gr TEZ's ever since.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Jan 10, 2020 12:28:30 GMT -5
Many of the 458 300gr HPs are made to work as slow as old trap door speeds or just a little faster. They are a poor choice for 2300fps loads. Keep them to 2000fps or less and they dont do too bad. The Speer 458 300gr is about the toughest of the lot. The Sierra is about the softest. Hornady and Rems are not much tougher than the Sierra. The Speer is fairly tough with its "plated" UniCor jacket.
The 325gr FTX pops up occasionally as blems. They are loaded in rounds as hot as 450 Marlin. Not a great bullet but a better choice than most 458 300gr HPs. IMO though the 325gr is better simply because a slow powder like 4198 was mentioned. Its on the slow side for a 300gr in a 50cal. Better suited to a 350gr really.
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Post by olegburn on Jan 10, 2020 15:00:03 GMT -5
I've expected some damage like you get from shoulder shots. I just couldn't foresee it will transform an animal into half skeleton. Aat the time I've hunted with Savage for few years and saw 250 grain SST's blow up and turn into splinters at close range. My idea was go with 300 would eliminate this problem purely by sheer mass. I'm equally amazed, like sew, that bullet disintegrates in first an inch or two. I've never cut those HP'S in half. Damage was expected, yes. Not to such extent. There's imagine scientific explanation to that. I've chalked it up to a fluke to be frank at the time. No one at the camp seen anything like that also. Is bullet centrifugal force coupled with an opening in the bullets nose that facilitates expansion makes all the difference? Just guessing. I've switched to a different load since because H4198 was harder to ignite reliably in very cold temperature. 4759 is my choice for now until I run out of it. I go with 300XTP with 42 grains of powder and it is very trusty combo. When/if, I convert to 45 it'll be different story im sure.
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Post by olegburn on Jan 10, 2020 15:02:12 GMT -5
I was not aware of Trapdoor 45-70 cartridges being the recipient of those bullets.
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Post by sew on Jan 10, 2020 22:55:08 GMT -5
The faster the spin, the more explosive the bullet. I have a 22-250 AK IMP that I’ve loaded vert hot, thanks to QL/QT. I’ve shot 40g NBTs @ 4,500’/sec out of my 8 twist barrel. I shot a coyote in the shoulder @ 80 yards . The coyote exploded.
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Post by GMB54-120 on Jan 10, 2020 23:33:50 GMT -5
I was not aware of Trapdoor 45-70 cartridges being the recipient of those bullets. Its right in Sierra's description of their 458 300gr FNHP. Lots of ammo is still loaded very mild for 45/70. Some well under 1500fps.
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Post by olegburn on Jan 11, 2020 0:54:39 GMT -5
Thanks for the link. Knowledge is power! I had to learn a hard way. A year before that I have to admit I've lost large doe that walked straight at me at about the same 50 feet or so distance. She was shot straight into a chest midway. It turned and ran off into the woods. Found some hair, couple drops of blood and that's it. Never recovered. I've long wondered what happened. I was sure of a shot. Could it possibly be a case of a bullet blowing up against sternum? I will never know for sure but have the inclination to suspect bullet failure. At 100 yards and beyond? There's no better bullet medicine for whitetails. Pass-throughs and almost never tracking needed.
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