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Post by rojo23 on Oct 17, 2015 17:48:49 GMT -5
We are less than a year away from an elk/mule deer hunt trip to colorado. The outfitter we are going with said that we need to be prepared to shoot out to 400 yards. I will be taking my 300 WSM, so I am looking for a bullet to take down an elk. I have a Remington 300 WSM with a 1:10 twist barrel that Jeff built for me a few years back. The outfitter said he shoots 165 grain barnes from his 300WM, and doesn't recommend the heavier bullets due to the drop. I think drop is easy enough to overcome, so that doesn't bother me too much. My rifle likes the heavier bullets, at least in the loads I have tried so far. Today I shoot 2 sub 1/2" groups, and 3 just over 1/2" with 180 Sierra Match kings. I was trying the same bullets with just a little difference in powder charges. I know they are not any good for hunting, but they are fairly cheap to get an idea on weight vs. speed.
Looking for an recommendations on bullets, and load data.
Thanks
Rojo
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Post by keith on Oct 17, 2015 18:30:21 GMT -5
Drop is not an issue at 400yds (easily determined and compensated for) so shoot the most accurate big game hunting bullet load you have.
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Post by Hank on Oct 17, 2015 18:34:40 GMT -5
You can't go wrong with the 180 grain bullets.. My choice would be Sierra game king or a nosler BT.. If you know the ballistics of the bullet 400 yards will be an easy shot...
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Post by keith on Oct 17, 2015 18:56:47 GMT -5
180gn would be my choice too but a TTSX or MRX. The heavy weight NBT are pretty tough too like Jeff suggested. The 165gn TTSX or GMX would be adequate too. The faster you push them the tougher I want the bullet to be since you never know how close animals will pop up. I only shoot cup and core at 2800fps and below and monos for anything faster. I even have monos for my .30-30 AI because I'm going to kill a bear and elk with it by still hunting.
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beans
Full Member
Posts: 248
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Post by beans on Oct 17, 2015 19:17:26 GMT -5
I am a big proponent of the mono's when you can get them to shoot well. You can usually go lighter then a cup and core bullet and get better penetration, speed and trajectory at "normal" hunting ranges of 400 yds or less.
The 165 TTSX is probably longer than any 180 cup and core bullet out there due to copper being a little less dense than lead and having a longish sexy sharp tip. A decent BC compared the the 180 cup and cores. It is not going to come apart up close and will be a slayer on any angle for the larger antlered game...elk or moose.
If my cup and core 180's shot way better than a mono, I would use it. Accuracy overrules the differences in performance, IMO, in heavy cal rifles.
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Post by Richard on Oct 23, 2015 19:36:26 GMT -5
A few years back I did an Elk trip to Idaho in the Sawtooth. A great pack in trip. I took my Rem. 7mm Mag. loaded with 150 gr. hand loaded Ballistic Tips. My thoughts ran along the lines of getting shots in the 200 to 400 yard range.................................Wrong! When it came down to pulling the trigger, the elk appeared at 45 yards in the black timber. With only getting glimpses of him walking thru the thick woods I pulled the trigger and hit him mid section, but in the spine. He immediately went down and a point blank hand gun finished him off. When we skinned him out, nothing remained of the bullet but some slivers of copper. Had I not hit the spine, who knows? I should have been using a bullet like something from Barnes but I was concerned with "flat trajectory" and went with the BT. Today, my choice would be different.
Richard
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Post by rojo23 on Oct 24, 2015 5:48:16 GMT -5
I have read a few different articles on people using BT for deer, and elk. The only BT I have ever used were for ground hogs. We were using them in smaller calibers, 243, 22-250, 204. I didn't think anyone used them for hunting, but I guess I was wrong. The bc of some of the BT is very high so I can see them flying flatter.
I am going to get some Barnes and see how they shoot. Probably my second choice will be Nosler accubond.
Thanks for the information
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Post by linebaugh on Oct 24, 2015 6:33:15 GMT -5
I would suggest starting with the 180 accubonds. I have shot some of them and have seen the performance on a few game animals. The accubond is a much tougher bullet than most would believe and I would personally not have any hesitation on taking any reasonably ethical shot on an elk no matter the distance with that bullet.
As a side note they also shoot very well and are easy to get to group. I have had some difficulty getting the barnes to shoot well and they have been dirty when it comes to fouling.
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beans
Full Member
Posts: 248
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Post by beans on Oct 24, 2015 15:50:32 GMT -5
There was a time I tried getting 85 gr tipped barnes to shoot in my .243. Dismal failure to group. I was seating them off the lands like you would a cup and core bullet and really hadn't done enough research to know that they are recommended to be WAY back off the lands. When I acquired my 7mm Mag I did a ton of testing with 150-175 gr SP's and Sciroccos. Found some really good loads but these types of bullets are bombs on deer. Too much. One day my friend who has (3) .280 Rem guns was messing with the 120 TTSX's and getting bug holes with many different combo's. He was loading way off the lands. I went to the Barnes in the 7mm with a recommended load right from Barnes data. 72 gr Re22 and COL of 3.24". In my gun this is over 70/1000's off the lands which I would never think would be good when going for accuracy. Well I loaded up some and shot a 3/4" group. That was the beginning and I haven't looked back. This bullet is so accurate and fast (3,450 fps) and most groups at 100 yds are under 3/4". My final sight in last year printed a 15/16" group at 200 yds. The 15-20 groups I have shot have always been "right there" and coverable by your thumb.
Case in point. if you are having trouble with the mono's getting to shoot, try backing them way off the lands and using the MFR recommended approach. These bullets, when able to be shot well, can't be beat.
Last year, the only deer I killed with this load was a doe at 160 yds. broadside 10 holed her. Took a leap...a few steps and dropped. There was good damage to the vitals but no explosion. The front end was not damaged at all except the forward ribs. The year before, I had shot a doe at about 40 yds in about the same place with a factory 175 gr Win power point and the entire front end was jellified. It was actually gross.
Sorry for the rant, but if I was after an elk and knew that I could shoot the mono's real well, there isn't one shot angle I wouldn't take and I would expect 2 holes every time. Again, anything accurate and heavy enough trumps a mono load that you can't shoot well IMO.
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